Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A40C002F for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:37:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376EA40918 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:37:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RzUNfo-XGqrg for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:37:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94A1E40908 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:37:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lf1-f51.google.com (mail-lf1-f51.google.com [209.85.167.51]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as jlrubin@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 20O3awWT004512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 22:36:59 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-f51.google.com with SMTP id p27so46506995lfa.1 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:36:59 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532V6OJ/TOmelakRDe/Gjnj2dPTKlg5f5lu7fTYNmu69StLKjoR5 Klj7WSwfvVlWOMY18IfPQZm1OR6NTdOPoyzS4IY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyIsVEJ0zlc7P+bcpobpBPE9dPnf/ScLMS56ndydX4KrkPY7EekxaNqztZHzXyBM9q2yGtNMpy8LlpWHsik5Nw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3981:: with SMTP id j1mr11576420lfu.247.1642995418027; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:36:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 19:36:46 -0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Bitcoin development mailing list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000425d0c05d64baed2" Subject: [bitcoin-dev] BIP-119 CTV Meeting #2 Agenda for Tuesday January 25th at 12:00 PT X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 03:37:03 -0000 --000000000000425d0c05d64baed2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Bitcoin Developers, The 2nd instance of the recurring meeting is scheduled for Tuesday January 25th at 12:00 PT in channel ##ctv-bip-review in libera.chat IRC server. The meeting should take approximately 2 hours. The topics proposed to be discussed are agendized below. Please review the agenda in advance of the meeting to make the best use of everyone's time. If you have any feedback or proposed content changes to the agenda please let me know. See you Tuesday, Jeremy - Update on Bounty Program & Feedback (10 Min) - Feedback Recap (20 Min) - In this section we'll review any recent feedback or review of CTV. To expedite the meeting, a summary is provided below of the main feedback received since the last meeting and responses to them so that the time allotted may be devoted to follow up questions. - Luke Dashjr's feedback - thread: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019776.html - summary: Dashjr notes that while CTV is not done, it may be nearly done. Dashjr requests that some applications be made BIP-quality before proceeding, amongst other smaller feedbacks. Dashjr also expresses his concerns about activation logic. Respondents debated the activation logic, and there was a general sentiment to keep the discussion of CTV and activation logic somewhat separate, as Activation is a general concern pertaining to all upgrades and not CTV in particular. Rubin responded asking if BIP-quality is required or if examples like those in rubin.io/advent21 suffice. - James O'Beirne's feedback - Github Link: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21702#pullrequestreview-859718084 - summary: O'Beirne tests the reindexing performance with the CTV patches and finds a minor performance regression due to the cache precomputations. Rubin responds with patches for an improved caching strategy that precomputes the CTV hashes only when they are used, but it is a little more complex to review. Rubin also points out that the tested range is not representative of "current" blocks which have a higher proportion of segwit. - Peter Todd's Feedback - thread: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019738.html - response: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019739.html - summary: Todd reviewed the BIP and an (outdated) implementation and was disappointed to find that the testing was insufficient, the analysis of validation resources was insufficient, and the quality of proof of concept applications was insufficient. Rubin responded by pointing Todd to the most up to date implementation which has more tests, updated the link in the BIP to the PR, updated the BIP to describe resource usage, and asked what the bar is expected to be for applications. Rubin further responded with an analysis of current congested mempool behavior here: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019756.html . Todd is yet to respond. - What is Sapio / How to think about Programming with CTV (15 Min) - Resources to review - https://learn.sapio-lang.org/ch02-00-bip-119.html - https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/06/advent-9/ - https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/15/advent-18/ - Composability - What's all this "Non-Interactivity" Business? - Vaults (20 Min) - Resources: https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/07/advent-10/ https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/08/advent-11/ https://github.com/kanzure/python-vaults - Congestion Control (20 Mins) - Resources: https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/09/advent-12/ https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019756.html https://utxos.org/analysis/batching_sim/ https://utxos.org/analysis/bip_simulation/ - Payment Pools (20 Mins) - Resources: https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/10/advent-13/ https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/15/advent-18/ https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-September/019419.html https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2020-June/017964.html - General Q&A (15 Mins) -- @JeremyRubin --000000000000425d0c05d64baed2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bitcoin Developers,
=

The 2nd instance=C2=A0of the recurring meeting is scheduled for Tuesday Ja= nuary 25th at 12:00 PT in channel ##ctv-bip-review in libera.chat IRC serve= r.

The meeting should=C2=A0take approximately 2 hours.

The topics proposed to be discussed are agendized belo= w. Please review the agenda in advance of the meeting to make the best use = of everyone's time.

If you have any feedback or proposed content changes = to the agenda please let me know.

See you Tuesday,

Jeremy

- Update on Bounty Program & Feedback (10 Min)
=
- Feedback Recap (20 M= in)
=C2=A0 - In this sectio= n we'll review any recent feedback or review of CTV.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 To expedite the meeting, a summary is pro= vided below of the main feedback received since the last meeting and respon= ses to them so that the time allotted may be devoted to follow up questions= .
=C2=A0 - Luke Dashjr's feedback=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - thread:=C2=A0https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-Jan= uary/019776.html
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - = summary:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = Dashjr notes that while CTV is not done, it may be nearly done.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dashjr requests that= some applications be made BIP-quality before proceeding, amongst other sma= ller feedbacks.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 Dashjr also expresses his concerns about activation logic.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Respondents = debated the activation logic, and there was a general sentiment to keep the= discussion of CTV and activation logic somewhat separate, as Activation is= a general concern pertaining to all upgrades and not CTV in particular.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Rubin respo= nded asking if BIP-quality is required or if examples like those in rubin.io/advent21 suffice.
=C2=A0 - James O'Beirne's feedback
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Github Link:=C2=A0= https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21702#pullrequestreview-859718084
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - summary:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 O'Beirne tests= the reindexing performance with the CTV patches and finds a minor performa= nce regression due to the cache precomputations.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Rubin responds with patches for an = improved caching strategy that precomputes the CTV hashes only when they ar= e used, but it=C2=A0is a=C2=A0little more complex to review.
=C2=A0 - Peter Todd's Feedback
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - thread: https://lists.linuxfoundation.or= g/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019738.html
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - response:=C2=A0https://li= sts.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019739.html<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - summary:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Todd reviewed the BIP= and an (outdated) implementation and was disappointed=C2=A0to find that th= e testing was insufficient, the analysis of validation resources was insuff= icient, and the quality of proof of concept applications was insufficient.<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Rubin res= ponded by pointing Todd to the most up to date implementation which has mor= e tests, updated the link in the BIP to the PR, updated the BIP to describe= resource usage, and asked what the bar is expected to be for applications.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Rubin fu= rther responded with=C2=A0an analysis of current congested mempool behavior= here:=C2=A0https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/b= itcoin-dev/2022-January/019756.html.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Todd is yet to respond.
- What is Sapio / How to think about Programming with CT= V (15 Min)
=C2=A0 - Resources to = review
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0https://learn.sapio-= lang.org/ch02-00-bip-119.html
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/06/advent-9/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/15/advent-18/
=C2=A0 - Composability
=C2=A0 - What's all this "Non-Interactivity= " Business?
- Vaults (20 Min)
=C2=A0 - Resources:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/07/advent-10/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/08/a= dvent-11/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://github.com/kanzure= /python-vaults
- Congestion Control (20 Mins)
=C2=A0 - Resources:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/09/advent-12/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://lists.lin= uxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019756.html
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://utxos.org/analysis/batching_sim/
<= div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://utxos.org/analysis/bip_simulation/
- Payment Pools (20 Mins)<= /div>
=C2=A0 -= Resources:=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://rubin.io/bit= coin/2021/12/10/advent-13/
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0https:/= /rubin.io/bitcoin/2021/12/15/advent-18/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://lists.linuxfoundation.org= /pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-September/019419.html
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://lists.linuxfoundatio= n.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2020-June/017964.html
- General Q&A (15 Mins)


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