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From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:44:16 +0200
Message-ID: <CABm2gDo0=psMAKY6Pvfp8b-RvAJdUabiESJpff_yzgwmy7cigQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f4936b05dd65d1fd"
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Speedy Trial
Precedence: list

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On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 2:14 PM Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 12:13:08PM +0100, Jorge Tim=C3=B3n wrote:
> > You're not even considering user resistance in your cases.
>
> Of course I am. Again:
>

No, you're relying on miners to stop bad proposals.


> > > My claim is that for *any* bad (evil, flawed, whatever) softfork, the=
n
> > > attempting activation via bip8 is *never* superior to speedy trial,
> > > and in some cases is worse.
> > >
> > > If I'm missing something, you only need to work through a single
> example
> > > to demonstrate I'm wrong, which seems like it ought to be easy... But
> > > just saying "I disagree" and "I don't want to talk about that" isn't
> > > going to convince anyone.
>
> The "some cases" where bip8 with lot=3Dtrue is *worse* than speedy trial
> is when miners correctly see that a bad fork is bad.
>
> Under *any* other circumstance, when they're used to activate a bad soft
> fork, speedy trial and bip8 are the same. If a resistance method works
> against bip8, it works against speedy trial; if it fails against speedy
> trial, it fails against bip8.
>

You're wrong.


> > Sorry for the aggressive tone, but I when people ignore some of my poin=
ts
> > repeteadly, I start to wonder if they do it on purpose.
>
> Perhaps examine the beam in your own eye.
>

Yeah, whether you do that yourself or not: sorry, it's over.


> Cheers,
> aj
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 2:14 PM Antho=
ny Towns &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aj@erisian.com.au">aj@erisian.com.au</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sun, =
Apr 24, 2022 at 12:13:08PM +0100, Jorge Tim=C3=B3n wrote:<br>
&gt; You&#39;re not even considering user resistance in your cases. <br>
<br>
Of course I am. Again:<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No, you&#39;re r=
elying on miners to stop bad proposals.<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; &gt; My claim is that for *any* bad (evil, flawed, whatever) softfork,=
 then<br>
&gt; &gt; attempting activation via bip8 is *never* superior to speedy tria=
l,<br>
&gt; &gt; and in some cases is worse.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; If I&#39;m missing something, you only need to work through a sin=
gle example<br>
&gt; &gt; to demonstrate I&#39;m wrong, which seems like it ought to be eas=
y... But<br>
&gt; &gt; just saying &quot;I disagree&quot; and &quot;I don&#39;t want to =
talk about that&quot; isn&#39;t<br>
&gt; &gt; going to convince anyone.<br>
<br>
The &quot;some cases&quot; where bip8 with lot=3Dtrue is *worse* than speed=
y trial<br>
is when miners correctly see that a bad fork is bad.<br>
<br>
Under *any* other circumstance, when they&#39;re used to activate a bad sof=
t<br>
fork, speedy trial and bip8 are the same. If a resistance method works<br>
against bip8, it works against speedy trial; if it fails against speedy<br>
trial, it fails against bip8.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You&#39;r=
e wrong.<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
&gt; Sorry for the aggressive tone, but I when people ignore some of my poi=
nts<br>
&gt; repeteadly, I start to wonder if they do it on purpose. <br>
<br>
Perhaps examine the beam in your own eye.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv>Yeah, whether you do that yourself or not: sorry, it&#39;s over.</div><d=
iv>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Cheers,<br>
aj<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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