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From: Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <0E15E07E-E21C-4541-869A-3C34CBA35774@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:37:20 -0700
Message-Id: <C50E24C5-B108-4DD1-851C-BC3391CC7E58@gmail.com>
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	<DEF9C610-2FBC-40C1-9AFA-9E91903C7F96@petertodd.org>
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To: Jean-Paul Kogelman <jeanpaulkogelman@me.com>
Cc: Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks
Precedence: list


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I think it=E2=80=99s pretty clear by now that the assumption that all =
nodes have pretty similar computational resources leads to very =
misplaced incentives. Ultimately, cryptocurrencies will allow direct =
outsourcing of computation, making it possible to distribute =
computational tasks in an economically sensible way.

Wallets should be assumed to have low computational resources and =
intermittent Internet connections for the foreseeable future if we ever =
intend for this to be a practical payment system, methinks.


> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:28 PM, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> I suppose you can use a timelocked output that is spendable by anyone =
you could go somewhat in this direction=E2=80=A6the thing is it still =
means the wallet must make fee estimations rather than being able to get =
a quick quote.
>=20
>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Jean-Paul Kogelman =
<jeanpaulkogelman@me.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> I think implicit QoS is far simpler to implement, requires less =
parties and is closer to what Bitcoin started out as: a peer-to-peer =
digital cash system, not a peer-to-let-me-handle-that-for-you-to-peer =
system.
>>=20
>> jp
>>=20
>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>>=20
>>> By using third parties separate from individual miners that do =
bidding on your behalf you get a mechanism that allows QoS guarantees =
and shifting the complexity and risk from the wallet with little =
computational resources to a service with abundance of them. Using =
timelocked contracts it=E2=80=99s possible to enforce the guarantees.
>>>=20
>>> Negotiating directly with miners via smart contracts seems difficult =
at best.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:03 PM, Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Doesn't matter.
>>>>=20
>>>> It's not going to be perfect given the block time variance among =
other factors but it's far more workable than guessing whether or not =
your transaction is going to end up in a block at all.
>>>>=20
>>>> jp
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> =
wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA256
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 23 July 2015 20:49:20 GMT-04:00, Jean-Paul Kogelman via =
bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> And it's obvious how a size cap would interfere with such a QoS =
scheme.
>>>>>> Miners wouldn't be able to deliver the below guarantees if they =
have to
>>>>>> start excluding transactions.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> As mining is a random, poisson process, obviously giving =
guarantees without a majority of hashing power isn't possible.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
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>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>=20
>=20


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