Delivery-date: Mon, 01 Sep 2025 04:34:46 -0700
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Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2025 01:41:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Javier Mateos <javierpmateos@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <8a0d48f9-bc15-492f-8b81-14dac4729a5cn@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Proposal] Add BIP-0093 (Codex32) as application
 to BIP-0085
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Hi Ben,

Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (codex32) as an=20
application within BIP-0085

Reviewing the specification,  I believe I see two areas where we could=20
improve clarity for implementers:

1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could benefit from explicit ps=
eudocode=20
to avoid implementation variations
2) The rule 'threshold =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1' currently appears as a =
note but=20
could be clearer as a normative requirement"

Best Regards,
Javier Mateos

El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben Westgate=20
escribi=C3=B3:

> Hello bitcoin-dev,
>
> I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic walle=
t backups=20
> and seed management.
>
> Per BIP-0002, I propose listing *BIP-0093 (codex32)*=20
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki> as an=20
> application of
> *BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP32 Keychains)=20
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawiki>*,=20
> similar to the existing BIP39 application. This allows wallets to derive=
=20
> codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.
>
> *Summary*=20
>
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Application number: 93'
>    - Derivation path:=20
>    m/83696968'/93'/{hrp}'/{threshold}'/{n}'/{byte_length}'/{id0}'/{id1}'/=
{id2}'/{id3}'/{index}'=20
>   =20
> Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-readable encoding with checksummin=
g=20
> and share indexing designed for SSS backups of BIP-0032 seeds. This PR=20
> proposes a deterministic way to generate codex32 strings using BIP-85.
>
> *Rationale*=20
>
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and=
=20
>    secret sharing features compared to BIP-39.
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from=
=20
>    BIP-85-derived entropy
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.
>   =20
> *Risks and alternatives*=20
>
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft PR #32652=
=20
>    <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.co=
m>=20
>    for importing codex32 strings to Bitcoin Core has support.
>    - Codex32 implementers could use the BIP-85 dice application, but=20
>    defining a direct application improves interoperability.
>
> PR:=20
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32=
=20
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex3=
2?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.com>
>
> Feedback is welcome.
> Best regards,
> Ben Westgate

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Hi Ben,<br /><br />Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (codex=
32) as an application within BIP-0085<br /><br />Reviewing the specificatio=
n, =C2=A0I believe I see two areas where we could improve clarity for imple=
menters:<br /><br />1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could bene=
fit from explicit pseudocode to avoid implementation variations<br />2) The=
 rule 'threshold =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1' currently appears as a note b=
ut could be clearer as a normative requirement"<br /><br />Best Regards,<br=
 />Javier Mateos<br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, B=
en Westgate escribi=C3=B3:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); paddin=
g-left: 1ex;"><p>Hello bitcoin-dev,</p>
<p>I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic wall=
et backups and seed management.</p>
<p>Per BIP-0002, I propose listing <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bi=
ps/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-=
saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://githu=
b.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;us=
t=3D1756802223954000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0bEJCpqsifMF9gZBC3DYsB"><strong>BIP-00=
93 (codex32)</strong></a> as an application of<br>
<strong><a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.med=
iawiki" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://=
www.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/mas=
ter/bip-0085.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1756802223954000&amp;us=
g=3DAOvVaw2wm0Lu_1uIAxfXLZgc7kdF">BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP3=
2 Keychains)</a></strong>, similar to the existing BIP39 application. This =
allows
wallets to  derive codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.</p>
<p><span><b>Summary</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Application number: <span>93&#39;</span></p>
</li><li>
Derivation path: <span>m/83696968&#39;/93&#39;/{hrp}&#39;/{threshold}&#39;/=
{n}&#39;/{byte_length}&#39;/{id0}&#39;/{id1}&#39;/{id2}&#39;/{id3}&#39;/{in=
dex}&#39;</span> <br></li></ul><p>Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-re=
adable encoding with checksumming and share indexing designed for SSS backu=
ps of BIP-0032 seeds. This PR proposes a deterministic way to generate code=
x32 strings using BIP-85.</p>
<p><span><b>Rationale</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and sec=
ret sharing features compared to BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from BIP=
-85-derived entropy<br></p>
</li><li>
<p>Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.<br></=
p></li></ul><p>
</p><p><b><span>Risks and alternatives</span></b>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft <a rel=3D"no=
opener nofollow" href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_=
source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www=
.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/326=
52?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1756802223954000&a=
mp;usg=3DAOvVaw2oJNr7Rsoe72k1FixYqpK9">PR #32652</a> for importing codex32 =
strings to Bitcoin Core has support.</p></li><li>Codex32 implementers could=
 use the BIP-85 dice application, but defining a direct application improve=
s interoperability.</li></ul><p>PR: <a rel=3D"noopener nofollow" href=3D"ht=
tps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm=
_source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://ww=
w.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/ma=
ster...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail=
&amp;ust=3D1756802223954000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1gvwPV7iMQDu85TSwuWdYY">https:/=
/github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32</a></p><=
p>Feedback is welcome.</p>Best regards,<br>Ben Westgate</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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