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[69.59.18.99]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 00721157ae682-703d25123e2si3504767b3.3.2025.04.05.10.39.24 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 05 Apr 2025 10:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 69.59.18.99 as permitted sender) client-ip=69.59.18.99; X-DKIM-Note: Keys used to sign are likely public at X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/mattcorallo.com and X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/clients.mail.as397444.net X-DKIM-Note: For more info, see https://as397444.net/dkim/ Received: by mail.as397444.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) (Exim) (envelope-from ) id 1u17UJ-007NVi-0C; Sat, 05 Apr 2025 17:39:23 +0000 Message-ID: <76c5ec26-5fd5-4746-86ed-89d2c8e28cbc@mattcorallo.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2025 13:39:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Post Quantum Signatures and Scaling Bitcoin To: Ethan Heilman , Bitcoin Development Mailing List References: Content-Language: en-US From: Matt Corallo In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Original-Sender: lf-lists@mattcorallo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mattcorallo.com header.s=1743872463 header.b=IZ2zIMzC; dkim=pass header.i=@clients.mail.as397444.net header.s=1743872465 header.b=Lb10HlmF; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 69.59.18.99 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lf-lists@mattcorallo.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=mattcorallo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 4/4/25 12:29 PM, Ethan Heilman wrote: > I strongly believe Bitcoin will need to move to PQ signatures in the > near future. The rest of this email is premised on this belief. Whether this is true or not, none of the non-hash-based PQC signature schemes seem like reasonable candidates to include in Bitcoin's consensus today (as far as I'm aware no sensible cryptographer anywhere is suggesting migrating to only PQC schemes given the likelihood that they end up broken by classical methods at some point in the next decade, which makes putting them in Bitcoin's consensus for the long term an incredibly questionable idea). Worse, making STARKs a part of Bitcoin's security assumption seems even more far-fetched. While this is all cool, I don't really see how this is a viable path any time in the next decade, sadly. If you believe that we need a PQ signature scheme in the near future, it seems to me the only option is something hash-based and we eat the cost (optionally, see eg [1]). [1] https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/oQKezDOc4us/m/F-Pq-Jw2AgAJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/76c5ec26-5fd5-4746-86ed-89d2c8e28cbc%40mattcorallo.com.