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From: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 17:02:37 -0500
Message-ID: <CADL_X_fw01-PfyTPXqYAyzwV9CO8tPLrd1_eZu16Z_kz-xM7LQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Total fees have almost crossed the block reward
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I'd hope that the incentives are in place to encourage high volume senders
to be more efficient in their use of block space by batching transactions
and implementing SegWit, though this may not be the case for providers that
pass transaction fees along to their users.

We've been trying to be more proactive about outreach regarding efficient
use of block space to our own customers at BitGo - when we break down the
cost savings of implementing a new technique, it generally helps to hasten
their adoption. I suspect that in many cases this is an issue of education
- we should be more proactive in calling out inefficient uses of block
space.

Good resources to bookmark and share:

https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction-fees-by-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb

https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fees-a9e24c788598

- Jameson

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> I asked adam back at hcpp how the block chain would be secured in the long
> term, once the reward goes away.  The base idea has always been that fees
> would replace the block reward.
>
> At that time fees were approximately 10% of the block reward, but have now
> reached 45%, with 50% potentially being crossed soon
>
> https://fork.lol/reward/feepct
>
> While this bodes well for the long term security of the coin, I think
> there is some legitimate concern that the fee per tx is prohibitive for
> some use cases, at this point in the adoption curve.
>
> Observations of segwit adoption show around 10% at this point
>
> http://segwit.party/charts/
>
> Watching the mempool shows that the congestion is at a peak, though it's
> quite possible this will come down over the long weekend.  I wonder if this
> is of concern to some.
>
> https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h
>
> I thought these data points may be of interest and are mainly FYI.  Though
> if further discussion is deemed appropriate, it would be interesting to
> hear thoughts.
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;d hope that the incentives are in place to encourage=
 high volume senders to be more efficient in their use of block space by ba=
tching transactions and implementing SegWit, though this may not be the cas=
e for providers that pass transaction fees along to their users.<div><br></=
div><div>We&#39;ve been trying to be more proactive about outreach regardin=
g efficient use of block space to our own customers at BitGo - when we brea=
k down the cost savings of implementing a new technique, it generally helps=
 to hasten their adoption. I suspect that in many cases this is an issue of=
 education - we should be more proactive in calling out inefficient uses of=
 block space.</div><div><br></div><div>Good resources to bookmark and share=
:</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up=
-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction-fees-by-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb">https=
://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction-fees-by-batch=
ing-payments-4147ab7009fb</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https=
://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fees-a9e24c788598=
">https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fees-a9e24=
c788598</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>- Jameson</div></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:30 P=
M, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>I asked adam back at hcpp how th=
e block chain would be secured in the long term, once the reward goes away.=
=C2=A0 The base idea has always been that fees would replace the block rewa=
rd.<br><br></div>At that time fees were approximately 10% of the block rewa=
rd, but have now reached 45%, with 50% potentially being crossed soon<br><b=
r><a href=3D"https://fork.lol/reward/feepct" target=3D"_blank">https://fork=
.lol/reward/feepct</a><br><br></div>While this bodes well for the long term=
 security of the coin, I think there is some legitimate concern that the fe=
e per tx is prohibitive for some use cases, at this point in the adoption c=
urve.<br><br></div>Observations of segwit adoption show around 10% at this =
point<br><br><a href=3D"http://segwit.party/charts/" target=3D"_blank">http=
://segwit.party/charts/</a><br><br></div>Watching the mempool shows that th=
e congestion is at a peak, though it&#39;s quite possible this will come do=
wn over the long weekend.=C2=A0 I wonder if this is of concern to some.<br>=
<br><a href=3D"https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h" target=3D"_=
blank">https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.<wbr>de/queue/more/#24h</a><br><br></di=
v>I thought these data points may be of interest and are mainly FYI.=C2=A0 =
Though if further discussion is deemed appropriate, it would be interesting=
 to hear thoughts.<br></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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