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References: <68330522-7e7c-c3b4-99a9-1c68ddb56f23@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <68330522-7e7c-c3b4-99a9-1c68ddb56f23@gmail.com>
From: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 16:08:13 -0500
Message-ID: <CADL_X_f08N9uHFN1FBWM4iC=oSWXdLD_WU3EtfhPse7xD5WHpA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Aymeric Vitte <vitteaymeric@gmail.com>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000088c209057db6e165"
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP39 seeds
Precedence: list

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I believe it would depend upon the entropy used for the seed, as that would
affect how many bits the checksum represents.
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki#Generating_the_mnemonic

So for a 24 word / 256 bit mnemonic the checksum is 8 bits, thus there are
8 valid checksums and if you picked a random checksum from the wordlist of
2048 words you'd have a 1 in 256 chance of picking a valid one.

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 1:44 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Has anybody already looked at this: given N randomly chosen words
> belonging to a BIP39 2048 words dictionary, what is the probability to
> get a "valid" BIP39 seed (ie with the right checksum)?
>
> The result looks (very) surprising to me and might have some use cases,
> just would like to know if this topic has already been discussed before
> going further
>
> --
> Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
> Bitcoin transactions made simple:
> https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
> Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets
> Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets
> Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist
> Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass
> Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist:
> http://torrent-live.org
> Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
> torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
> node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
> GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">I believe it would depend upon the entrop=
y used for the seed, as that would affect how many bits the checksum repres=
ents.=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.=
mediawiki#Generating_the_mnemonic">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/mas=
ter/bip-0039.mediawiki#Generating_the_mnemonic</a></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div>So for a 24 word / 256 bit mnemonic the checksum is 8 bits, th=
us there are 8 valid checksums and if you picked a random checksum from the=
 wordlist of 2048 words you&#39;d have a 1 in 256 chance of picking a valid=
 one.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, De=
c 23, 2018 at 1:44 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:b=
itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
Has anybody already looked at this: given N randomly chosen words<br>
belonging to a BIP39 2048 words dictionary, what is the probability to<br>
get a &quot;valid&quot; BIP39 seed (ie with the right checksum)?<br>
<br>
The result looks (very) surprising to me and might have some use cases,<br>
just would like to know if this topic has already been discussed before<br>
going further<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): <a href=3D"https://peersm.co=
m/wallet" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://peersm.com/wallet</a=
><br>
Bitcoin transactions made simple: <a href=3D"https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoi=
n-transactions" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/Aym=
s/bitcoin-transactions</a><br>
Zcash wallets made simple: <a href=3D"https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallet=
s</a><br>
Bitcoin wallets made simple: <a href=3D"https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wal=
lets" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-=
wallets</a><br>
Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: <a href=3D"http://peersm.com/getblocklis=
t" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://peersm.com/getblocklist</a><=
br>
Check the 10 M passwords list: <a href=3D"http://peersm.com/findmyass" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://peersm.com/findmyass</a><br>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a href=3D"http://torre=
nt-live.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://torrent-live.org</=
a><br>
Peersm : <a href=3D"http://www.peersm.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.peersm.com</a><br>
torrent-live: <a href=3D"https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a><br>
node-Tor : <a href=3D"https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a><br>
GitHub : <a href=3D"https://www.github.com/Ayms" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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