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From: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
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Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:48:46 -0700
Message-Id: <6A72F2DB-C07C-4953-B820-03613941D72E@voskuil.org>
References: <CAJowKgJb99LAQ=KGEcU2a1jJBPGBNh7=zW177NpS-vxvKZyO0A@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAJowKgJb99LAQ=KGEcU2a1jJBPGBNh7=zW177NpS-vxvKZyO0A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Surprisingly, Tail Emission Is Not Inflationary
Precedence: list


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> On Jul 18, 2022, at 14:14, Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@list=
s.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
>>=20
>> subsidy to directly tie miner revenue to the total value of Bitcoin=20
>> makes it not exactly how we want to incentivise a service that keeps=20
>>=20
>=20
> again, this is meaningless.   if the fees aren't enough to keep  bitcoin s=
ecure for large transactions, then large holders are incentivised to mine

Yes, this is another way to pay the tx fee - you mine at cost sufficient to o=
verpower the censor. You are spending the block reward in getting your txs c=
onfirmed, and that=E2=80=99s your fee.

But unless you are mining full blocks of only your own transactions, this im=
plies that you are accepting these higher fees on censored txs from others. O=
therwise you are simply mining at a loss, which we cannot use as a rational b=
asis for security.

And therefore this reduces to the simple fact that tx fees are what provides=
 censorship resistance, whether you mine your own or others=E2=80=99.

e

> that's it.
>=20
> it's not complicated
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jul 18, 2022, at 14:14,=
 Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev &lt;bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org&gt;=
 wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>subsidy to directly tie miner revenue to the t=
otal value of Bitcoin <br>
makes it not exactly how we want to incentivise a service that keeps <br><br=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div>again, this is meaningless.&nbsp; &nbsp;if=
 the fees aren't enough&nbsp;to keep&nbsp; bitcoin secure for large transact=
ions, then large holders are incentivised to mine</div></div></div></div></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, this is another way to pay the tx fee - y=
ou mine at cost sufficient to overpower the censor. You are spending the blo=
ck reward in getting your txs confirmed, and that=E2=80=99s your fee.</div><=
div><br></div><div>But unless you are mining full blocks of only your own tr=
ansactions, this implies that you are accepting these higher fees on censore=
d txs from others. Otherwise you are simply mining at a loss, which we canno=
t use as a rational basis for security.</div><div><br></div><div>And therefo=
re this reduces to the simple fact that tx fees are what provides censorship=
 resistance, whether you mine your own or others=E2=80=99.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>e</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>that's it.</div><div><br></div><div>it's n=
ot complicated</div></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>bitcoi=
n-dev mailing list</span><br><span>bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</sp=
an><br><span>https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev<=
/span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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