MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CABuOfui=G_iSaKdeVZ=M_udg-DoqAVxCrHOZaHuSJze4+N7CLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABuOfujV1gAaSOKBB7S0_JKuwp+3iNhY5kN59F3LLndPENUA_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOxie=En8EqfuEtaPxH_v-2SYfUunudb4Zu0MQ-ZfEiPMxa6AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABuOfui=G_iSaKdeVZ=M_udg-DoqAVxCrHOZaHuSJze4+N7CLw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Moral Agent <ethan.scruples@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 10:39:07 -0400
Message-ID: <CACiOHGxYuqCONJzVm=zD2qkS4BR+Pvm9Ccofh_SCH-uzmW-LwA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113ddd50d9f756055cc4999f"
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Visually Differentiable - Bitcoin Addresses
Precedence: list

--001a113ddd50d9f756055cc4999f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

If you are going to rely on human verification of addresses, the best way
might be map it to words.

For example, with a 6000 word list, a 25 byte address (with a checksum)
could be mapped to 16 words like this:

vocally           acquire        removed     unfounded
euphemism    sanctuary    sectional     driving
entree            freckles    aloof           vertebrae
scribble          surround      prelaw         effort

In my opinion, that is much faster to verify than this:

13gQFTYHuAcfnZjXo2NFsy1E8JGSLwXHCZ

or

bc1qrp33g0q5c5txsp9arysrx4k6zdkfs4nce4xj0gdcccefvpysxf3qccfmv3

Although I really do love Bech32.

On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:13 AM, shiva sitamraju via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> For example bc1qeklep85ntjz4605drds6aww9u0qr46qzrv5xswd35uhjuj8ahfcqgf6hak
> in 461e8a4aa0a0e75c06602c505bd7aa06e7116ba5cd98fd6e046e8cbeb00379d6 is 62
> bytes ! This is very very long. This will create lot of usability problems
> in
>
> - Blockexplorers (atleast user should be visually able to compare in a
> transaction having multiple outputs which one his address)
> - Mobiles
> - Payment terminals
>
> From my limited understanding, the purpose of inventing a bitcoin address
> format is for usability and ease of identification (versus a ECDSA public
> key), While I get the error/checksum capabilities Bech32 brings, any user
> would prefer a 20 byte address with a checksum  over an address that would
> wrap several lines !!
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Ben Thompson <
> thompson.benedictjames@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Checking the first few bytes of a Bitcoin Address should not be
>> considered sufficient for ensuring that it is correct as it takes less than
>> a second to generate a 3 character vanity address that matches the first 3
>> characters of an address.
>>
>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 11:44 shiva sitamraju via bitcoin-dev, <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> When I copy and paste bitcoin address, I double check the first few
>>> bytes, to make sure I copied the correct one. This is to make sure some
>>> rogue software is not changing the address, or I incorrectly pasted the
>>> wrong address.
>>>
>>>
>>> With Bech32 address, its seems like in this department we are taking as
>>> step in the backward direction. With the traditional address, I could
>>> compare first few bytes like 1Ko or 1L3. With bech32, bc1. is all I can see
>>> and compare which is likely to be same anyway. Note that most users will
>>> only compare the first few bytes only (since addresses themselves are very
>>> long and will overflow in a mobile text box).
>>>
>>> Is there anyway to make the Bech32 addresses format more visually
>>> distinct (atleast the first few bytes) ?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

--001a113ddd50d9f756055cc4999f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">If you are going to rely on human verification of addresse=
s, the best way might be map it to words.<div><br></div><div>For example, w=
ith a 6000 word list, a 25 byte address (with a checksum) could be mapped t=
o 16 words like this:<div><br></div><div><div>vocally =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 acquire =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0removed =C2=A0 =C2=A0 unfo=
unded</div><div>euphemism =C2=A0 =C2=A0sanctuary =C2=A0 =C2=A0sectional =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 driving</div><div>entree =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0freckles <span style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0aloof =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 vertebrae</div><div>scribble =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0surround =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prelaw =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 effort</div></div></div><div><br></div><div>In my opinion, that =
is much faster to verify than this:</div><div><br></div><div>13gQFTYHuAcfnZ=
jXo2NFsy1E8JGSLwXHCZ<br></div><div><br></div><div>or</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>bc1qrp33g0q5c5txsp9arysrx4k6zdkfs4nce4xj0gdcccefvpysxf3qccfmv3<br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>Although I really do love Bech32.</div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:1=
3 AM, shiva sitamraju via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lis=
ts.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div>For example bc1qeklep85ntjz4605drd=
s6aww9u0<wbr>qr46qzrv5xswd35uhjuj8ahfcqgf6h<wbr>ak in 461e8a4aa0a0e75c06602=
c505bd7aa<wbr>06e7116ba5cd98fd6e046e8cbeb003<wbr>79d6 is 62 bytes ! This is=
 very very long. This will create lot of usability problems in <br></div><d=
iv><br></div>- Blockexplorers (atleast user should be visually able to comp=
are in a transaction having multiple outputs which one his address)<br></di=
v>- Mobiles<br></div>- Payment terminals <br><br></div>From my limited unde=
rstanding, the purpose of inventing a bitcoin address format is for usabili=
ty and ease of identification (versus a ECDSA public key), While I get the =
error/checksum capabilities Bech32 brings, any user would prefer a 20 byte =
address with a checksum=C2=A0 over an address that would wrap several lines=
 !! <br><div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><d=
iv class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Ben Thompson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:thompson.benedictjames@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">thompson.ben=
edictjames@gmail.<wbr>com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Checking the first few bytes of a Bitcoin Address s=
hould not be considered sufficient for ensuring that it is correct as it ta=
kes less than a second to generate a 3 character vanity address that matche=
s the first 3 characters of an address.</div><span>
</span><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"m_-354360230273966=
2677h5"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 11:44 shiva sitamraju via bit=
coin-dev, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfounda<wbr>tion.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"m_-3543=
602302739662677h5"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Hi,<br><br></div>When I =
copy and paste bitcoin address, I double check the first few bytes, to make=
 sure I copied the correct one. This is to make sure some rogue software is=
 not changing the address, or I incorrectly pasted the wrong address.<br><b=
r><br></div>With Bech32 address, its seems like in this department we are t=
aking as step in the backward direction. With the traditional address, I co=
uld compare first few bytes like 1Ko or 1L3. With bech32, bc1. is all I can=
 see and compare which is likely to be same anyway. Note that most users wi=
ll only compare the first few bytes only (since addresses themselves are ve=
ry long and will overflow in a mobile text box).<br><br></div>Is there anyw=
ay to make the Bech32 addresses format more visually distinct (atleast the =
first few bytes) ? <br></div></div></div><span>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat<wbr>ion.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-d<wbr>ev</a><br>
</span></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113ddd50d9f756055cc4999f--