Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YPWyY-0000Ep-1V for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:53:38 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.148.101 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.148.101; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail148101.authsmtp.com; Received: from outmail148101.authsmtp.com ([62.13.148.101]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1YPWyW-0004gc-JH for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:53:38 +0000 Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt18.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t1MDrTxJ093213; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:53:29 GMT Received: from [25.110.218.64] ([24.114.64.252]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t1MDrPf7001438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:53:26 GMT In-Reply-To: References: <20150212064719.GA6563@savin.petertodd.org> <20150215212512.GR14804@nl.grid.coop> <54E11248.6090401@gmail.com> <20150219085604.GT14804@nl.grid.coop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 From: Peter Todd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:53:23 +0000 To: Eric Lombrozo , Jeff Garzik Message-ID: X-Server-Quench: 2d3b5569-ba9a-11e4-b396-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdAAUHlAWAgsB AmMbWldeVV57W2Q7 aQ5PbARZfExKQQdv UldNRFdNFUssAGF1 RH5IVRlydgFFcDBx Z0NnXD5ZCEcocEN7 S1MGRGRXeGZhPWQC AkNRcR5UcAFPdx8U a1UrBXRDAzANdhES HhM4ODE3eDlSNilR RRkIIFQOdA4REyY4 ThsPWD8+WEMISm0t d1p/chhEBk1NWgAA X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 24.114.64.252/465 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1YPWyW-0004gc-JH Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] replace-by-fee v0.10.0rc4 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:53:38 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 22 February 2015 08:41:56 GMT-05:00, Eric Lombrozo wrote: >In case it wasn't clear in my earlier post, there's of course a third >possibility - namely, some outputs are kept but not all. Here, it is >generally impossible to tell whether the motivation was fee >replacement, >output replacement, or both. My proposal is to always treat these >instances >as output replacement and punish the sender. The sender needs to make >it >unambiguously clear it's only a fee replacement by creating a new >transaction that produces an output with the desired extra fee and then >adding an input that spends it to the original transaction. That's a really old idea - I proposed it about two years ago. The optimal way is to allow any txout to be replaced with one with an equal or greater nValue and same scriptPubKey, as well as additional txouts added. (obviously so long as none are removed) Alas, there's lots of situations where this restricts you from doing useful things, for instance collapsing multiple payments into one by repeated updating to reduce tx size. Equally the benefit is marginal at best given how insecure unconfirmed transactions are - breaking what is already broken isn't a negative. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQE9BAEBCAAnIBxQZXRlciBUb2RkIDxwZXRlQHBldGVydG9kZC5vcmc+BQJU6d9O AAoJEMCF8hzn9LncUOUH/3yY4wDyFSkL9o6GsntphAmJSN35wVAlxPxBmNTk0KR3 YfVhY1cTBIXKqsfqz/n1Sqn264aMzW48xUTtDF2xLzJc1FY5qTBw7zbVrZgYIvvr GEakZW1SxLXsfSs2Onutl0WQWi8EMfxEXEPQIiiWy9mq4EtwxMOcDviETycu6Wmn pmHY00Lo8jhLUyuIkzIZrZetEtWz1VtovbJO5l7WfmLgPWzW+zERPY/pGGioqdiJ NOEaocQ+2+OZjyx3MJ4YAch5ZtfB45g+NBm8WyeGpBgxzK3ZIpmyZIQ6HqZr0gpl NMUQh6Sbi8WaTEp6hoYTiEfZcEy4IDPg6f0DEW71BPs= =1vbN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----