Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD35DC0001 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:16:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95556F555 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:16:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OrNr_FCUcrf1 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:16:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-yb1-xb36.google.com (mail-yb1-xb36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C26A76EAA1 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:16:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-xb36.google.com with SMTP id x19so2541637ybe.0 for ; Fri, 05 Mar 2021 08:16:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=K1XeHBjHVTSV5jkqyxjD491Wpcq3rgbhLOQ3Fqv/LuA=; b=RLfgj52cJujZJSuhYnlVSkx2emChn+AeoGfkqrTcdx6vBinqUKWjKdH3gUaFw+LjLn nnVbKh8POaigTG73c+ab9jEo+Ujxo5iISJuvK7S727lP7qCoj3bNWXyrM8CD5v+kiqII U4B3a/66lUBbAH+Dp7AMVwSLhbyAc6HfLevmhoyJ46dtkGLvsG7FgwOCkBA6q/KqjthX hsgTOi5mG38QvAjq4v78tqYNBRN8ZH0md7exYxHVw2WPVryIBHR7Sfl3D35Dw4qLjsGB uRCtIOthzdE1limY6vIaTZY0ji2yStlEwkoqn8bwObL2YwLK9qtoJRJNsAMh+KuyRJZV 7AcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=K1XeHBjHVTSV5jkqyxjD491Wpcq3rgbhLOQ3Fqv/LuA=; b=Hla4UBdpeXjjxPf2uL4sKHZjShjuIL/VGKB7n+vwpmm64iq/ojthWM1pamkpFBINYn 0b9rjIqvIrmMix6Yoy6cBOjWKlE7sB+5OBl5h+Zi8ekDT3pbwFgdItUS0ycyCIdeakOE nDW5UIpgz8Ztf3rp9DBWA9v/S2jKCINslVKZKrVqoe+j+2ALcNHhhSUBnWF6teqruakz ouvBEw3enITxOm6HEZk5BbMKFl2sXn6gvUlXmF/PbURP5+E+nn8IQpQcNfvvehhRFP2T Ca74PJIAiSHcsstOHVa1S/bGX6eAonWIug3KDjD++LUt409GzUUmdPykTxteC6ZBv0t5 nvBg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530tOeowItcfwrChtOFzMwp15Upgj2L8wZRV0cITNNgeldJVOZp8 YHja4i4gRYVXH/hNSIqNNzDSwxFYXnTMzI1BLlM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyYWaZEx+5XSt4JxgCW390ZtLodPEICZzkNki+eRrDyZB46Je/MMgTTTp1xPbKgTtt63RRaPfsv1cslVA5DGdE= X-Received: by 2002:a25:9d0d:: with SMTP id i13mr14413268ybp.236.1614960984684; Fri, 05 Mar 2021 08:16:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Lonero Foundation Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2021 11:16:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: Devrandom Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d17d2605bccc67af" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 05 Mar 2021 20:47:39 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2021 16:16:27 -0000 --000000000000d17d2605bccc67af Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate that my cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also tackles problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the BTC network could be vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do this BIP because it tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and can provide useful insight to the community. If things such as bigger block height have been proposed as hard forks, I feel at the very least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptography does at least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my BIP, just let me know on the preferred format? Best regards, Andrew On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation wrote: > Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to > renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the > most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness > of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki > format on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal? > > Best regards, Andrew > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom wrote: > >> Hi Ryan and Andrew, >> >> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev < >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ >>> "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work" >>> on | 04 Aug 2015 >>> >>> >> Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market >> will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward. It does not >> prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost. >> >> Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and >> that we should move to other resources. I would argue that the negative >> externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the >> point is likely moot. >> >> --000000000000d17d2605bccc67af Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate th= at my cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also t= ackles problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the B= TC network could be vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I = do want to do this BIP because it tackles lots of the issues in regards to = this manner and can provide useful insight to the community. If things such= as bigger block height have been proposed as hard forks, I feel at the ver= y least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptography does at= least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my BIP, just = let me know on the preferred format?

Best regards, Andrew

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Found= ation <loneroassociation@= gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards= to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the= most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness= of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki fo= rmat on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal?

Best regards, Andrew

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM= Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net> wrote:
Hi Ryan= and Andrew,

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev &= lt;bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundati= on.org> wrote:

=C2=A0 https://www.tru= thcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 on | 04 Aug 2015


Just to belabor this a bit, the paper = demonstrates that the mining market will tend to expend resources equivalen= t to miner reward.=C2=A0 It does not prove that mining work has to expend *= energy* as a primary cost.

Some might argue th= at energy expenditure has negative externalities and that we should move to= other resources.=C2=A0 I would argue that the negative externalities will = go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the point is likely moo= t.=C2=A0

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