Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80E1BFA6 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:45:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wm0-f41.google.com (mail-wm0-f41.google.com [74.125.82.41]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76C2718A for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:45:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wm0-f41.google.com with SMTP id j199so4750658wmj.2 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 07:45:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=ZCcLzlU8ygiAiykuam+5bRYGkJeJ/7VtdMQ4LkK+8e8=; b=cV/usUTI2kgVvRxMN9BcJXGcT26d5x4GG33JvkE7W3Sz948yoMBAhRLVCX35Hlk9+h DLn8r0rfIQPI1haoiz01RUgH/SE08ecOsNVT6OL6vn3qPbIn6hpqvi3r2+wR6z5v3vmm AbXfxjzCAcxgzdrTJtdHcdt9hhCmXvY1RcDGyKBIDA+FwKmwEa4z0NJlnpLNQe11dwS9 JnV0xtT/S0ZRsvIJ08ytMHOOBhkRe/lRvpyPyHQkDnot4CZQ9gQoqlx5NFQsXswOKl9C 74/kPAKUlz5cII1sQlfC6HCFhyZuCa4t/2wumIcJrPEJbS90geMJHeVOM2s+QLnCkpsy 2FCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=ZCcLzlU8ygiAiykuam+5bRYGkJeJ/7VtdMQ4LkK+8e8=; b=ND8gADbG+csGKEK5oTDWsUo66E+YcJSPN+0nlTCwnWOyDELUiNOLlntmbILFyDoeSQ v474RyS+foTJHXi0lBtJ04IXJ6hHiiJ2q/xBBeXwEGXfrK9GZdJyI4l+goC2DGjxGWmN uRoLNwMGdj6JbzOaxU0KbyhE7gfFeI/b4X290erM0KqsCs3RSAIt7+pKXVAnvL+r0f6F 0EERnE3qJzLwM/hvj5xoZeGaydKQL29as63re+a8GfjOGuH4oFMdU0UoPcMiRP18mh/Y y5aFQRI+2880yeozMBxo6krwSkaD8T7yKVN+NZbTvRo+9ZFBDoI/LBBzON+/QxVp23Ds Egfg== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPAUNb5zAwtKAVAIc4//8k+iLFMr5ohjvnRxoTbmOr+7gGaHBKdS w51UGoM2YQR5Ep/HU8TiGk/aTA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227vqhI86MuT4sjIbmG0by3yNJrkj0oQGKnsc/kFrM5lRyl37nXO9c9RnSFdgyCyqOMNwb7l1w== X-Received: by 10.80.148.49 with SMTP id p46mr2622642eda.237.1518536716056; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 07:45:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2a01:cb1d:5c:1600:9d6d:71b2:cb71:cb17? ([2a01:cb1d:5c:1600:9d6d:71b2:cb71:cb17]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z8sm6291958edi.11.2018.02.13.07.45.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Feb 2018 07:45:15 -0800 (PST) To: Jameson Lopp , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , Natanael References: <65F92B37-48C1-4CD5-8F17-47BF9BD231A9@gmail.com> From: Aymeric Vitte Message-ID: <267a18b8-707d-8f78-1cff-ba3ed57684c3@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 16:45:17 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B8669FE51FBC253660A0603E" Content-Language: fr X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?JOSE_FEMENIAS_CA=c3=91UELO?= Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Possible change to the MIT license X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 15:45:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B8669FE51FBC253660A0603E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No, the problem is not bitcoin being under any kind of attack by the forks for me, but the forks fooling people because, again, reusing the bitcoin core code is too easy I don't know if there can be a legal solution to this which would keep some open source aspect of the code, but at least it deserves to be studied Le 13/02/2018 à 16:24, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev a écrit : > If I'm understanding the problem being stated correctly: > > "Bitcoin is under a branding attack by fork coins." > > The proposed solution is to disincentivize fork coins from using the > word Bitcoin by altering the license terms. I'm not a lawyer, but it > seems to me that the words of the license are basically useless unless > there is an entity that intends to make use of court systems to > threaten noncompliant projects into submission. > > In my opinion, the perceived attack on Bitcoin here is social / > marketing-based, thus it makes sense that any defense against said > attack should also be social / marketing-based. I don't think that > Bitcoin should be reliant upon courts or governments to defend itself > against attacks of any form. > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Natanael via bitcoin-dev > > wrote: > > > > Den 13 feb. 2018 15:07 skrev "JOSE FEMENIAS CAÑUELO via > bitcoin-dev" >: > > *** > NO PART OF THIS SOFTWARE CAN BE INCLUDED IN ANY OTHER PROJECT > THAT USES THE NAME BITCOIN AS PART OF ITS NAME AND/OR ITS > MARKETING MATERIAL UNLESS THE SOFTWARE PRODUCED BY THAT > PROJECT IS FULLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE BITCOIN (CORE) BLOCKCHAIN > *** > > > That's better solved with trademarks. (whoever would be the > trademark holder - Satoshi?)   > > This would also prohibit any reimplementation that's not formally > verified to be perfectly compatible from using the name.  > > It also adds legal uncertainty.  > > Another major problem is that it neither affects anybody forking > older versions of Bitcoin, not people using existing independent > blockchain implementations and renaming them Bitcoin-Whatsoever.  > > And what happens when an old version is technically incompatible > with a future version by the Core team due to not understanding > various new softforks? Which version wins the right to the name?  > > Also, being unable to even mention Bitcoin is overkill.  > > The software license also don't affect the blockchain data.  > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev -- Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.org Peersm : http://www.peersm.com torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms --------------B8669FE51FBC253660A0603E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

No, the problem is not bitcoin being under any kind of attack by the forks for me, but the forks fooling people because, again, reusing the bitcoin core code is too easy

I don't know if there can be a legal solution to this which would keep some open source aspect of the code, but at least it deserves to be studied


Le 13/02/2018 à 16:24, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev a écrit :
If I'm understanding the problem being stated correctly:

"Bitcoin is under a branding attack by fork coins."

The proposed solution is to disincentivize fork coins from using the word Bitcoin by altering the license terms. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that the words of the license are basically useless unless there is an entity that intends to make use of court systems to threaten noncompliant projects into submission.

In my opinion, the perceived attack on Bitcoin here is social / marketing-based, thus it makes sense that any defense against said attack should also be social / marketing-based. I don't think that Bitcoin should be reliant upon courts or governments to defend itself against attacks of any form.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Natanael via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:


Den 13 feb. 2018 15:07 skrev "JOSE FEMENIAS CAÑUELO via bitcoin-dev" <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
***
NO PART OF THIS SOFTWARE CAN BE INCLUDED IN ANY OTHER PROJECT THAT USES THE NAME BITCOIN AS PART OF ITS NAME AND/OR ITS MARKETING MATERIAL UNLESS THE SOFTWARE PRODUCED BY THAT PROJECT IS FULLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE BITCOIN (CORE) BLOCKCHAIN
***
That's better solved with trademarks. (whoever would be the trademark holder - Satoshi?)  

This would also prohibit any reimplementation that's not formally verified to be perfectly compatible from using the name. 

It also adds legal uncertainty. 

Another major problem is that it neither affects anybody forking older versions of Bitcoin, not people using existing independent blockchain implementations and renaming them Bitcoin-Whatsoever. 

And what happens when an old version is technically incompatible with a future version by the Core team due to not understanding various new softforks? Which version wins the right to the name? 

Also, being unable to even mention Bitcoin is overkill. 

The software license also don't affect the blockchain data. 


_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev




_______________________________________________
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bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


-- 
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets
Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets
Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist
Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.org
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
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