Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
	helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
	by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <me@ricmoo.com>) id 1XJlp5-0008Hx-PQ
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:59:47 +0000
X-ACL-Warn: 
Received: from mail-ig0-f180.google.com ([209.85.213.180])
	by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76) id 1XJlp4-0004Je-JV
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:59:47 +0000
Received: by mail-ig0-f180.google.com with SMTP id l13so9856441iga.7
	for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
	Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
	h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from
	:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to;
	bh=nGctgX7YqcnAml0XLWIod/P/exbYjVFiqpcuLIcyW28=;
	b=DT29uWabOCr2NCEjD3+Y5puqA8gVm7woy4C8r163OFVs2mjO0u++eu4mhyrSuKu1iy
	tuRaN2yX26KpXzWvktsaKlNj41KOGa0qBhhOO9+cljRYd1Fd4ysb9eoL1ewSDY3i6sp0
	Cfzexqb4EtZRlNm26sbNjVM5UB2aTLQa6rVcP2LsVgWrwWgA5fEwixU8rTjx7ugZdEIL
	wl5JvIz614sczCjWi/o8guVWawAAmbAiI3FGKVtWMLJRng1fRgVmkkBZ2xgYQkk7F+HW
	RaOx2yRNeC3K+KuVtAj083gTE67MQQUErxIyju9Wm4a25SNidKoo9wSq93EICLmpOu1N
	EsKA==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnspd78ZewxnyWvzKo59q01AE0pcrwJo3Rv0FkYq/Wc5IgR8xtO/gsAtpgQWBAOXLbtCebm
X-Received: by 10.50.43.137 with SMTP id w9mr6676781igl.36.1408462249410;
	Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:30:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.2.25] (135-23-143-85.cpe.pppoe.ca. [135.23.143.85])
	by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id jg9sm7022638igb.6.2014.08.19.08.30.47
	for <multiple recipients>
	(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
	Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_8409A5BC-9426-41D2-A8B5-A93C3BA54565"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\))
From: Richard Moore <me@ricmoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+8=xu+KWSF6XYgH-_t87na6M6UOD0CM1su8sizxn5a4b0_Xrw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:30:45 -0400
Message-Id: <33D4B2E3-DBF0-444E-B76A-765C4C17E964@ricmoo.com>
References: <CA+8=xuJ+YDTNjyDW7DvP8KPN_nrFWpE68HvLw6EokFa-B-QGKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+8=xuKRyO1=bu7cgNGHvtAeqgKBxjTH2uUkb61GdCuEQWEu5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<0C0EF7F9-DBBA-4872-897D-63CFA3853726@ricmoo.com>
	<CA+8=xu+KWSF6XYgH-_t87na6M6UOD0CM1su8sizxn5a4b0_Xrw@mail.gmail.com>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ra=FAl_Mart=EDnez?= <rme@i-rme.es>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6)
X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
	See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
	-0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
	1.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
	author's domain
	0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
	not necessarily valid
	-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1XJlp4-0004Je-JV
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: Encrypt bitcoin messages
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:59:48 -0000


--Apple-Mail=_8409A5BC-9426-41D2-A8B5-A93C3BA54565
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=iso-8859-1

Oh, I see. I misread, thinking you wanted the dev team to have a private =
key and share the public key, similar to alerts. But each peer would =
have a public/private key pair and use something akin to ECDH for a =
symmetric key and transport using a block cipher?

How would you share the public key? If I were a man-in-the-middle, I =
could intercept the public key, generate my own and pass that along and =
then decouple the pipe when the other side shares their public key.

Also, you should not ignore your SSH fingerprint, as you exactly open =
yourself to mitm attacks.



On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Ra=FAl Mart=EDnez <rme@i-rme.es> wrote:

> Only messages between peers are encrypted, only during transit.
>=20
> Before sending a transaction to Node B you use his public key, so Node =
B has the key
>=20
> El 19/08/2014 17:05, "Richard Moore" <me@ricmoo.com> escribi=F3:
> If you encrypt all messages with an asymmetric cipher, how would each =
node make use of the blockchain in an encrypted form? Each node would be =
able to encrypt the data, but only the Bitcoin Core Dev could decrypt =
it?
>=20
>=20
> On Aug 19, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Ra=FAl Mart=EDnez <rme@i-rme.es> wrote:
>=20
>> Hi,
>> I believe that all comunications should be encrypted by default, no =
matter that is public information (tx info), the only exception I would =
make would be block packets (to avoid increasing propagation time).
>>=20
>> I suggest that Bitcoin Core should generate a public/private key pair =
and share the public one with peers.
>>=20
>> This could provide privacy and integrity but not autentication.
>>=20
>> This way you can impersonate a bitcoin node (active mitm) but you =
cant just be passive and record all transactions send or recieved by an =
IP address.
>>=20
>> Today you can just watch for incoming/outgoing transactions to =
determine what tx are created in the Node, when you find one you can see =
the Bitcoin address inputs and outputs and track that person's bitcoins.
>> As an example, SSH provides this kind of encryption, althogh Bitcoin =
Core should ignore fingerprint changes (caused due to reinstalls).
>>=20
>> Please feel free to disqus why this is not needed or why you like =
this idea.
>>=20
>> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>=20
> .=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF=
`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8><(((=BA>
>=20
> Richard Moore ~ Founder
> Genetic Mistakes Software inc.
> phone: (778) 882-6125
> email: ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com
> www: http://GeneticMistakes.com
>=20

.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=
=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8><(((=BA>

Richard Moore ~ Founder
Genetic Mistakes Software inc.
phone: (778) 882-6125
email: ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com
www: http://GeneticMistakes.com


--Apple-Mail=_8409A5BC-9426-41D2-A8B5-A93C3BA54565
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=iso-8859-1

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Diso-8859-1"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Oh, I =
see. I misread, thinking you wanted the dev team to have a private key =
and share the public key, similar to alerts. But each peer would have a =
public/private key pair and use something akin to ECDH for a symmetric =
key and transport using a block cipher?<div><br></div><div>How would you =
share the public key? If I were a man-in-the-middle, I could intercept =
the public key, generate my own and pass that along and then decouple =
the pipe when the other side shares their public =
key.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, you should not ignore your SSH =
fingerprint, as you exactly open yourself to mitm =
attacks.<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Aug 19, =
2014, at 11:11 AM, Ra=FAl Mart=EDnez &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:rme@i-rme.es">rme@i-rme.es</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><p =
dir=3D"ltr">Only messages between peers are encrypted, only during =
transit.</p><p dir=3D"ltr">Before sending a transaction to Node B you =
use his public key, so Node B has the key</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">El 19/08/2014 17:05, "Richard Moore" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:me@ricmoo.com">me@ricmoo.com</a>&gt; escribi=F3:<br =
type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">If you encrypt all messages with an =
asymmetric cipher, how would each node make use of the blockchain in an =
encrypted form? Each node would be able to encrypt the data, but only =
the Bitcoin Core Dev could decrypt it?<div>
<br></div><div><br><div><div>On Aug 19, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Ra=FAl =
Mart=EDnez &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rme@i-rme.es" =
target=3D"_blank">rme@i-rme.es</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><p dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<br>
I believe that all comunications should be encrypted by default, no =
matter that is public information (tx info), the only exception I would =
make would be block packets (to avoid increasing propagation =
time).</p><p dir=3D"ltr">
I suggest that Bitcoin Core should generate a public/private key pair =
and share the public one with peers.</p><p dir=3D"ltr">This could =
provide privacy and integrity but not autentication.</p><p =
dir=3D"ltr">This way you can impersonate a bitcoin node (active mitm) =
but you cant just be passive and record all transactions send or =
recieved by an IP address.</p><p dir=3D"ltr">Today you can just watch =
for incoming/outgoing transactions to determine what tx are created in =
the Node, when you find one you can see the Bitcoin address inputs and =
outputs and track that person's bitcoins.<br>

</p><p dir=3D"ltr">As an example, SSH provides this kind of encryption, =
althogh Bitcoin Core should ignore fingerprint changes (caused due to =
reinstalls).</p><p dir=3D"ltr">Please feel free to disqus why this is =
not needed or why you like this idea.</p>

=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----<br>_______________________________________________<br>Bitcoin-develop=
ment mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" =
target=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a =
href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" =
target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-dev=
elopment</a><br></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: =
0px;">.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=
=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8&gt;&lt;(((=BA&gt;<br>
<br>Richard Moore ~ Founder<br>Genetic Mistakes Software inc.<br>phone: =
(778) 882-6125<br>email:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com" =
target=3D"_blank">ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com</a><br>www:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://geneticmistakes.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://GeneticMistakes.com</a></span>
</div>
<br></div></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;  =
">.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF=
`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8&gt;&lt;(((=BA&gt;<br><br>Richard Moore ~ =
Founder<br>Genetic Mistakes Software inc.<br>phone: (778) =
882-6125<br>email:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com">ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com</a><=
br>www:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://GeneticMistakes.com/">http://GeneticMistakes.com</a></span>=

</div>
<br></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_8409A5BC-9426-41D2-A8B5-A93C3BA54565--