Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 240BDB15 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 06:43:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from omr-a018.mx.aol.com (omr-a018e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.64]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6C2FE5 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 06:43:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mtaomg-aal01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aal01.mx.aol.com [172.27.20.207]) by omr-a018.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 91F0638000A3 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 02:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-ada01c.mail.aol.com (core-ada01.mail.aol.com [172.27.0.1]) by mtaomg-aal01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 4B61538000084 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 02:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 162.227.126.201 by webprd-a12.mail.aol.com (10.72.12.230) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 31 Aug 2015 02:43:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 02:43:20 -0400 From: hurricanewarn1@aol.com To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Message-Id: <14f827eebfc-1c38-73be@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <20150821130333.Horde.9zPFmy3VMqAO5FGReDHaRg1@www.vfemail.net> References: <20150821130333.Horde.9zPFmy3VMqAO5FGReDHaRg1@www.vfemail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_34880_975094486.1441003400186" X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [162.227.126.201] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1441003400; bh=R7kRrLML8m+EOnjCaQRQKrYhEr0hM7+WkNyQ726oOJs=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=6xpE9o7Oh6v8enzJsNayeQ3uEf6PMQh2tRU+2AvGLVW8GCGjA+xk0COfxGoR8z99E e7w9fWF3ppIwJcZvjO6Cx1A7QlDFdFrFDFs3ly/Bfmp5iCw1579jNwuC0H+YRbruod BCvtbm4xoIpveKU9FA/uB3DJP7ENyBZmchndYyXg= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b14cf55e3f7883d90 X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, LOTS_OF_MONEY, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Censorship X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 06:43:23 -0000 ------=_Part_34880_975094486.1441003400186 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regardless of the XT debate, centralization on reddit and bitcointalk has b= ecome a critical issue for the bitcoin community. A few anonymous people co= ntrol both these forums, giving them unprecedented power to manipulate disc= ussion, alter reputation, ban users, and even to facilitate scammers in the= name of getting profits. Protecting the de-centralized spirit of the Bitco= in community is no longer on their list of priorities, in fact those in cha= rge have publicly stated centralization is necessary. It doesn't matter how= many thousands of posts you contributed or if you've traded thousands of B= itcoins, if one of the few who control reddit and bitcointalk decide to get= rid of you there's nothing you can do. Bitcointalk has done more damage to= my reputation than any other website I've ever used, and I only used it fo= r a year. The damage wasn't even from the scammers, but rather those in cha= rge of the community posting false allegations with zero evidence, and enfo= rcing a guilty until proven innocent policy. Even when such allegations are= definitively proven incorrect and allegations cease the posts stay on the = internet forever, another site crawls all the bitcoin discussion and saves = it. It's not an isolated incident either, happened several times to me befo= re I realized how detrimental it was to even post there, and I've seen coun= tless other members receive the same treatment.=20 There is no doubt that the centralization and censorship of the Bitcoin com= munity is massively inhibiting the advance of Bitcoin and also the growth o= f the Bitcoin economy. We are scaring away intellectuals, businessman, and = newbies that are just getting started. It has put us in a very dangerous po= sition, the community has been weakened, and there is the possibility that = the forums could be handed over to the government at any time due to their = centralized nature. =20 I am creating a de-centralized forum, and I mean truly de-centralized as I = nor anyone else will be able to control it. I am already writing the code a= nd I'm confident it won't be long until a basic release is out. I am certai= n this will be very positive for the Bitcoin community, and the rest of the= world since centralization is getting stronger everyday. The world needs t= his to level the playing field, it will be impossible for anything to be de= leted on this forum even if the NSA attacks it. No one will be banned ever.= The only rule is there are no rules. =20 If anyone is interested in this feel free to email me back. I am doing this= for zero profit and without any pay, just out of passion, so I don't mind = getting as much people as possible involved.=20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: sisadm101--- via bitcoin-dev To: bitcoin-dev Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2015 2:10 pm Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Censorship =20 People are wondering why there is such a division in the bitcoin community = at this time. Bitcoin as a whole is only so big. The bitcoin discussion com= munities are spread out, but there are only a few popular ones. BitcoinTalk= and Reddit seem to be the largest, most popular where bitcoin discussion h= appens consistently and from almost everyone in the community (devs, users,= btc companies, merchants, and so on). I think we all know where this is go= ing. If not, here you go. BitcoinTalk and Reddit are managed by a single pe= rson: Theymos. It's become quite clear over the past several days/weeks, th= at Theymos is highly censoring bitcoin discussion, mainly on Reddit, but al= so BitcoinTalk. If this single person is able to censor content, and hush t= he debate, he (and whatever his agenda is), wins. How can we as a community= discuss these proposed changes, if the discussion is from a one sided poin= t of view? There doesn't seem to be a solution at this time, but I find it = dissapointing that many (in this very email list) aren't discussing this im= portant part of the issue. Maybe it's becuase Theymos is anti-bigger blocks= , which seems to coincide with the Blockstream point of view, which many of= the core devs belong to. =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------=20 ONLY AT VFEmail! - Use our Metadata Mitigator=E2=84=A2 to keep your emai= l out of the NSA's hands! =20 $24.95 ONETIME Lifetime accounts with Privacy Features!=20 No Bandwidth Quotas! 15GB disk space! =20 Commercial and Bulk Mail Options! =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev =20 ------=_Part_34880_975094486.1441003400186 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regardless of the XT debate, centralization on reddit and bitcointalk has become a cr= itical issue for the bitcoin community. A few anonymous people control both= these forums, giving them unprecedented power to manipulate discussion, al= ter reputation, ban users, and even to facilitate scammers in the name of g= etting profits. Protecting the de-centralized spirit of the Bitcoin communi= ty is no longer on their list of priorities, in fact those in charge have p= ublicly stated centralization is necessary. It doesn't matter how many thou= sands of posts you contributed or if you've traded thousands of Bitcoins, i= f one of the few who control reddit and bitcointalk decide to get rid of yo= u there's nothing you can do. Bitcointalk has done more damage to my reputa= tion than any other website I've ever used, and I only used it for a year. = The damage wasn't even from the scammers, but rather those in charge of the= community posting false allegations with zero evidence, and enforcing a gu= ilty until proven innocent policy. Even when such allegations are definitiv= ely proven incorrect and allegations cease the posts stay on the internet f= orever, another site crawls all the bitcoin discussion and saves it. It's n= ot an isolated incident either, happened several times to me before I reali= zed how detrimental it was to even post there, and I've seen countless othe= r members receive the same treatment.

There is no doubt that the centralization and censorship of the Bitcoin com= munity is massively inhibiting the advance of Bitcoin and also the growth o= f the Bitcoin economy. We are scaring away intellectuals, businessman, and = newbies that are just getting started. It has put us in a very dangerous po= sition, the community has been weakened, and there is the possibility that = the forums could be handed over to the government at any time due to their = centralized nature. 

I am creating a de-centralized forum, and I mean truly de-centralized as I = nor anyone else will be able to control it. I am already writing the code a= nd I'm confident it won't be long until a basic release is out. I am certai= n this will be very positive for the Bitcoin community, and the rest of the= world since centralization is getting stronger everyday. The world needs t= his to level the playing field, it will be impossible for anything to be de= leted on this forum even if the NSA attacks it. No one will be banned ever.= The only rule is there are no rules. 

If anyone is interested in this feel free to email me back. I am doing this= for zero profit and without any pay, just out of passion, so I don't mind = getting as much people as possible involved.



-----= Original Message-----
From: sisadm101--- via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.or= g>
To: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2015 2:10 pm
Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Censorship

= =20 =20
People are wondering why there is such a division in the bitcoin commu= nity at this time. Bitcoin as a whole is only so big. The bitcoin discussio= n communities are spread out, but there are only a few popular ones. Bitcoi= nTalk and Reddit seem to be the largest, most popular where bitcoin discuss= ion happens consistently and from almost everyone in the community (devs, u= sers, btc companies, merchants, and so on). I think we all know where this = is going. If not, here you go. BitcoinTalk and Reddit are managed by a sing= le person: Theymos. It's become quite clear over the past several days/week= s, that Theymos is highly censoring bitcoin discussion, mainly on Reddit, b= ut also BitcoinTalk. If this single person is able to censor content, and h= ush the debate, he (and whatever his agenda is), wins. How can we as a comm= unity discuss these proposed changes, if the discussion is from a one sided= point of view? There doesn't seem to be a solution at this time, but I fin= d it dissapointing that many (in this very email list) aren't discussing th= is important part of the issue. Maybe it's becuase Theymos is anti-bigger b= locks, which seems to coincide with the Blockstream point of view, which ma= ny of the core devs belong to.
=20

-------------------------------------------------
=20 ONLY AT VFEmail! - Use our=20 Metadata Mitigator=E2=84=A2 to keep you= r email out of the NSA's hands!=20
$24.95 ONETIME Lifetime accounts with Privacy Features!
No Bandwidth Quotas!   15GB disk space!=20
Commercial and Bulk Mail Options!=20
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