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From: Jean-Paul Kogelman <jeanpaulkogelman@me.com>
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 09:14:10 -0700
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To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Instant / contactless payments
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Just to add some more numbers, in Canada, the maximum is $50 and I've used i=
t for transactions of $5, even less.

I use it every day to pay for breakfast and it works through my wallet, even=
 with multiple NFC enabled cards in there (though not overlapping). The expe=
rience is quite smooth; simply tap my wallet on the POS and a few seconds la=
ter it's approved.

jp

On Mar 10, 2014, at 9:04 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

>> I just did my first contactless nfc payment with a MasterCard. It worked v=
ery well and was quite delightful - definitely want to be doing more of thes=
e in future.
>=20
> A bit more competitive intelligence - turns out that the experience isn't q=
uite so good after all. After trying a few more times to use contactless pay=
ments, I found it has a ~75% failure rate based on my usage.
>=20
> By far the biggest problem is also the most predictable - it's very common=
 here for merchants to require minimum payment sizes before they'll accept c=
redit cards, often quite high, like 20 CHF or more. But the PIN-less mode on=
ly works for payments below a certain threshold, I haven't quite figured out=
 what it is yet, but in the UK it's 20 GBP so maybe it's about 30 CHF. So th=
ere turns out to be an incredibly thin price range in which the simple touch=
-to-pay system actually works. Most of the time, either they:
>=20
> a) Reject cards entirely because the payment is too small
> b) Don't have the right hardware, or the hardware just mysteriously fails t=
o work.
> c) Require a PIN because the payment is too large
>=20
> I'm sure Bitcoin can do better than this.
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their=

> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><br></div><div>Just to add some more n=
umbers, in Canada, the maximum is $50 and I've used it for transactions of $=
5, even less.</div><div><br></div><div>I use it every day to pay for breakfa=
st and it works through my wallet, even with multiple NFC enabled cards in t=
here (though not overlapping). The experience is quite smooth; simply tap my=
 wallet on the POS and a few seconds later it's approved.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>jp</div><div><br></div><div>On Mar 10, 2014, at 9:04 AM, Mike Hearn &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>=
</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">I just did my first contactless nfc payment with a MasterCard. It worked v=
ery well and was quite delightful - definitely want to be doing more of thes=
e in future.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>A bit more competitive intelligence - turns=
 out that the experience isn't quite so good after all. After trying a few m=
ore times to use contactless payments, I found it has a ~75% failure rate ba=
sed on my usage.</div>
<div><br></div><div>By far the biggest problem is also the most predictable -=
 it's very common here for merchants to require minimum payment sizes before=
 they'll accept credit cards, often quite high, like 20 CHF or more. But the=
 PIN-less mode only works for payments below a certain threshold, I haven't q=
uite figured out what it is yet, but in the UK it's 20 GBP so maybe it's abo=
ut 30 CHF. So there turns out to be an incredibly thin price range in which t=
he simple touch-to-pay system actually works. Most of the time, either they:=
</div>
<div><br></div><div>a) Reject cards entirely because the payment is too smal=
l</div><div>b) Don't have the right hardware, or the hardware just mysteriou=
sly fails to work.</div><div>c) Require a PIN because the payment is too lar=
ge</div>
<div><br></div><div>I'm sure Bitcoin can do better than this.</div><div><br>=
</div></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>--------------------=
----------------------------------------------------------</span><br><span>L=
earn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book</span><br><span>"Graph Da=
tabases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their</span><br>=
<span>applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,</span><=
br><span>this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!=
</span><br><span><a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech">http://p.sf.n=
et/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a></span></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>B=
itcoin-development mailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-de=
velopment@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</=
a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/b=
itcoin-development">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-dev=
elopment</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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