Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EF1C0032 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 10:26:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB7260AC6 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 10:26:25 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 7BB7260AC6 Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gap600.com header.i=@gap600.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=google header.b=QWhAePHB X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MQH0pttsCLpv for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 10:26:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vk1-xa30.google.com (mail-vk1-xa30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a30]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BBB960A7D for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 10:26:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 3BBB960A7D Received: by mail-vk1-xa30.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-48642c1607bso1651920e0c.0 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 03:26:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gap600.com; s=google; t=1690799182; x=1691403982; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dmPRLhUwEpo3Rv1I8NyMNhIy6KNez8914cuELHAXrb4=; b=QWhAePHBd+mxuC7zRwrYCeAZAbc9612knKhJlXXmGhyVmCFRU97CZXAdWV5pXfyGuB METNCZn0hO4N+NuQlH/jsH295YmW5sGX7i+CWVUstFKgCAfXrjbd4cajIxDtVR2fcl9h x2LXdYLUnDHmZlVXM5LA488UpWf3fO8LaGNjUZzzaPQPc7UXguBFNQd5Phfwz9qoON91 EHPAujBgoY1u2LDaL+wGFBCEL1oJiNUHdlTYgBh0Yy9BbxhNzsWWX145UyaheCeqIk72 mzhJyLnyDXywspF+8IePqu3fkqjfUXQFZW4fJCVk9krkHWl46Wc8aKANI7A6FhbTR6nr rCRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1690799182; x=1691403982; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dmPRLhUwEpo3Rv1I8NyMNhIy6KNez8914cuELHAXrb4=; b=fLuDTDZ4Jzg5FYErI40/duakJhPPXePOlggNHGGL8H5F8uwFqpTvu76QdraHe4aWCf +jzWFajVhsINcNvYbKpUyh3EWAtSCquJVyNrM833mA8k4WI3yeII1TBJ4OykpCA/CcZw 79yykch5BSR9W8HqmvTbMnKcjk4JI4uf5P7tMZ70XJPW3K1HAdUz/qONV4culJc5Gfb1 IpV9gUfn9yg2ZkYRN6Au6F7oNs7b+w4UGWewHKL0jmrG9IcjkCHhwM7DRA73ulz6ocfx tIQ615we+3NjQfhdwk0xNqdiScAU1PNQzpSV+vUYkshoAXiVzO4bDuwM3SFBRHxMPZ6y cjXA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLaV3C2Iy9geZEJ4bkxpYzEkBsETQ2BwZytKk+HC+YY6CVLcj/8k O+TrB0jaipjY5D2XIhR5ZLDOvPNXshA/j+QgSGLt8eXYO+IHmzd0RK65Ig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlFlFWm3bNIXgo7OnuVQqWkM1dmPVzh6jXa6VLIA/gMh1F+1dRYKkF3NSDPkyOjJRm9l4sc6Gs6TYozypgv/CtU= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:4e44:0:b0:486:4b91:dafa with SMTP id c65-20020a1f4e44000000b004864b91dafamr3993447vkb.16.1690799182584; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 03:26:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Daniel Lipshitz Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 13:26:11 +0300 Message-ID: To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aa33310601c5dc0f" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 11:55:13 +0000 Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Pull-req to enable Full-RBF by default X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 10:26:25 -0000 --000000000000aa33310601c5dc0f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This would unnecessarily and extremely negatively impact merchants and users who choose to accept 0-conf while using mitigation tools like GAP600. This negative impact could be avoided by simply adding first seen safe rule - ie a trx can be replaced but needs to include the original outputs. At GAP600 we continue to see strong use of our service for BTC we have seen circa 350k unique trx hash per month (over the last 3 months) requested to our platform. Our clients include - Coinpayments, Coinspaid and Changelly. Given the period of Mempool being full we have seen an increase in the fee required in order to be approved by our platform for trx. This is not an insignificant use case and one which can be easily maintained as is. We have provided further statistics in the past and direct feedback from Coinspaid CEO with in the mailing list see here - https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-December/021240.html We have not seen any impact of full RBF on double spend rates for our trxs which seems to put in large question the stated figure of 40% adoption by miners at such a rate of adoption we would expect to see a large increase in double spends. We expect once this setting becomes default this will greatly change the adoption of this service. GAP600 model targets not to get it wrong and as such we are very sensitive to any double spend which we get wrong in predicting as we reimburse our clients. GAP600 is not a payment processor; rather services payment processors, merchants and non custodial liquidity providers which service non-custodial wallets. ________________________________ Daniel Lipshitz GAP600| www.gap600.com --000000000000aa33310601c5dc0f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This would unnecessarily and extremely negative= ly impact merchants and users who choose to accept 0-conf while using mitig= ation tools like GAP600. This negative impact could be avoided by simply ad= ding first seen safe rule - ie a trx can be replaced but needs to include t= he original outputs.

At GAP600 we continue to see strong use of our service for = BTC we have seen circa 350k unique trx hash per month (over the last 3 mont= hs) requested to our platform. Our clients include - Coinpayments, Coinspai= d and Changelly. Given the period of Mempool being full we have seen an inc= rease in the fee required in order to be approved by our platform for trx. = This is not an insignificant use case and one which can be easily maintaine= d as is.

We have provided further statistics in the past and direct feedback fro= m Coinspaid CEO with in the mailing list see here -=C2=A0https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/b= itcoin-dev/2022-December/021240.html

We have not seen any impact of full RBF= on double spend rates for our trxs which seems to put in large question th= e stated figure of 40% adoption by miners at such a rate of adoption we wou= ld expect to see a large increase in double spends. We expect once this set= ting becomes default this will greatly change the adoption of this service.=

GAP600 model targets not to get it wro= ng and as such we are very sensitive to any double spend which we get wrong= in predicting as we reimburse our clients. GAP600 is not a payment process= or; rather services payment processors, merchants and non custodial liquidi= ty providers which service non-custodial wallets.

______________= __________________

Daniel Lipshitz
GAP600|=C2=A0www.gap600.com


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