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From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 15:52:48 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJHLa0PG8C3LShqjY_sTiFw5K+j_vA1Bger2d8QnUVe07gTDDA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b33d812f4b5850518d2ab53
Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	Gavin Andresen <gavin@bitcoinfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer
 to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers
Precedence: list

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On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach.org>
wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> The whole point is getting out in front of the need, to prevent
>> significant negative impact to users when blocks are consistently full.
>>
>> To do that, you need to (a) plan forward, in order to (b) set a hard fork
>> date in the future.
>>
>
> Or alternatively, fix the reasons why users would have negative
> experiences with full blocks, chiefly:
>
>   * Get safe forms of replace-by-fee and child-pays-for-parent finished
> and in 0.12.
>   * Develop cross-platform libraries for managing micropayment channels,
> and get wallet authors to adopt
>   * Use fidelity bonds, solvency proofs, and other tricks to minimize the
> risk of already deployed off-chain solutions as an interim measure until:
>   * Deploy soft-fork changes for truly scalable solutions like Lightning
> Network.
>
> Not raising the block size limit does not mean doing nothing to solve the
> problem.
>

This is a long, unreasonable list of work.  None of this exists and it
equates to "upgrade all wallets and websites everywhere"  It requires all
exchanges, payment processors, merchants, etc. to  - basically everybody
but miners - to update.

It is a far, far larger amount of work to write, test and deploy than
simply increasing the block size limit.

Think through roll-out of these ambitious suggestions, before suggesting as
an alternative!

Not a realistic alternative except in an alternate universe where (a)
developer work at all companies is cost free, plus (b) we can pause the
business universe while we wait for The Perfect Solution.


-- 
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc.      https://bitpay.com/

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Mark Friedenbach <span di=
r=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mark@friedenbach.org" target=3D"_blank">mar=
k@friedenbach.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span=
 class=3D"">On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Jeff Garzik <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jgarzik@bitpay.com" target=3D"_blank">jgarzik@bitpay.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br></span><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">The whole point is getting out in front of the need, to preven=
t significant negative impact to users when blocks are consistently full.<d=
iv><br></div><div>To do that, you need to (a) plan forward, in order to (b)=
 set a hard fork date in the future.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div=
></span><div>Or alternatively, fix the reasons why users would have negativ=
e experiences with full blocks, chiefly:<br><br></div><div>=C2=A0 * Get saf=
e forms of replace-by-fee and child-pays-for-parent finished and in 0.12.<b=
r></div><div>=C2=A0 * Develop cross-platform libraries for managing micropa=
yment channels, and get wallet authors to adopt <br></div><div>=C2=A0 * Use=
 fidelity bonds, solvency proofs, and other tricks to minimize the risk of =
already deployed off-chain solutions as an interim measure until:<br></div>=
<div>=C2=A0 * Deploy soft-fork changes for truly scalable solutions like Li=
ghtning Network.<br><br></div><div>Not raising the block size limit does no=
t mean doing nothing to solve the problem.</div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><div>This is a long, unreasonable list of work.=C2=A0 No=
ne of this exists and it equates to &quot;upgrade all wallets and websites =
everywhere&quot; =C2=A0It requires all exchanges, payment processors, merch=
ants, etc. to =C2=A0- basically everybody but miners - to update.</div><div=
><br></div><div>It is a far, far larger amount of work to write, test and d=
eploy than simply increasing the block size limit.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Think through roll-out of these ambitious suggestions, before suggesting a=
s an alternative!</div><div><br></div><div>Not a realistic alternative exce=
pt in an alternate universe where (a) developer work at all companies is co=
st free, plus (b) we can pause the business universe while we wait for The =
Perfect Solution.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><b=
r></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div></div><br><br clear=
=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature">Jeff Garzik<b=
r>Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist<br>BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://bitpay.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://bitp=
ay.com/</a></div>
</div></div>

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