Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
	designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender)
	client-ip=74.125.82.46; envelope-from=ryacko@gmail.com;
	helo=mail-wg0-f46.google.com; 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: ryacko@gmail.com
In-Reply-To: <CAJfRnm4EouQFwpKXLZX4GtfE5hzvNMufYxm=Kt+J3iwy9a9edg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i1_ZyGBAsOGdCvPwJNhARbe-MuWzi9MYLsa3WS_PO25hg@mail.gmail.com>
	<52B7AC86.9010808@monetize.io>
	<CAO7N=i1avBNy9wfQSAyDH19ywJ__C_A9XSVBbufa42=Lu4MjRg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJfRnm4EouQFwpKXLZX4GtfE5hzvNMufYxm=Kt+J3iwy9a9edg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 23:41:08 -0800
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i3LEGJ-fSApYPhoAkL=BCQuHmYZgOCrq9OOZe0SY4Tb1g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ryan Carboni <ryan.jc.pc@gmail.com>
To: Allen Piscitello <allen.piscitello@gmail.com>,
	bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bfd05621f413704ee42ded5
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin difficulty sanity check suggestion
Precedence: list

--047d7bfd05621f413704ee42ded5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Maybe it's because the arguments being presented are nonsensical and
irrelevant to the current Bitcoin network topology, composed of a small
number of mining pools, not solo miners? Furthermore I think people would
realize that their mining pool has gone "off the reservation" so to speak.


On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Allen Piscitello <
allen.piscitello@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan,
>
> Why do you continue to try to correct people who clearly have put more
> thought into this than you?  Everyone understood you just fine, you just
> seem to have trouble comprehending why your ideas are terrible.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Ryan Carboni <ryan.jc.pc@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I think you misunderstood my statement. If time > 3 days, and after 4
>> blocks have been mined, then difficulty would be reset.
>>
>> In theory, one would have to isolate roughly one percent of the Bitcoin
>> network's hashing power to do so. Which would indicate an attack by a state
>> actor as opposed to anything else. Arguably, the safest way to run Bitcoin
>> is through a proprietary dial-up network.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Mark Friedenbach <mark@monetize.io>wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Ryan, these sort of adjustments introduce security risks. If you were
>>> isolated from the main chain by a low-hashpower attacker, how would
>>> you know? They'd need just three days without you noticing that
>>> network block generation has stalled - maybe they wait for a long
>>> weekend - then after that the block rate is normal but completely
>>> controlled by the attacker (and isolated from mainnet).
>>>
>>> There are fast acting alternative difficulty adjustment algorithms
>>> being explored by some alts, such as the 9-block interval, 144-block
>>> window, Parks-McClellan FIR filter used by Freicoin to recover from
>>> just such a mining bubble. If it were to happen to bitcoin, there
>>> would be sophisticated alternative to turn to, and enough time to make
>>> the change.
>>>
>>> On 12/22/2013 07:10 PM, Ryan Carboni wrote:
>>> > I think Bitcoin should have a sanity check: after three days if
>>> > only four blocks have been mined, difficulty should be adjusted
>>> > downwards.
>>> >
>>> > This might become important in the near future. I project a
>>> > Bitcoin mining bubble.
>>> >
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
>>> Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org
>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>>>
>>> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSt6yGAAoJEAdzVfsmodw4SegQAIJAWW0OgSjediSWq+EpkReS
>>> qMvC2Y9dmVHtowYLdJVcgwFWbpU8RhA6ApQ1Ks2XF4t0hFCObYDecG6Nl3OIaLfb
>>> snz24v8ymdxYXKNtzHHUP0VBgsaoRghIpkbf7JMUXC22sxPoPOXFt5RevLgJHrvc
>>> oGFZSIcEcGgwhwZ745CgFZLwaKuSmg5+wFFcrjIihlHKJOl47Z7rzeqnD6mf2Oi3
>>> hDpRuVbuhlGMliYcmhk1E6oV0in2R4Purw1WtoY8C9DxrSP2za7W1oeCkmlFfJZS
>>> to6SzRj7nEIl0LFaPGsIdBrRdDHfvu6eP2OecI+GNLEwLY6qE5v5fkh47mcDkrN0
>>> 02PmepoX5PRzBqp4sx8WaFKuRbmTRRr3E4i9PGoyzTckkZzq+zFmb1y5fwOy17hE
>>> C+nP+DyuaPzjypjdo6V+/oGzUKtuKPtqcB1vurbm+WBl5C1jWosAXv5pR87mdCUJ
>>> +0e14wPra5blV6yBVqX7yx+2heDGymPKfHJ8i76Dtix7XVOJWKVY4OpIxO7YrYv8
>>> IKcIswoKhZdSDOJLcjm4Qp4hrzgCHAHWx6vN71r5r2T6zaJTOvp98GS04Yy7VGAr
>>> j38hojcwvJC1ahER3LV/vC0cqO+fxrvY8Q9rW2cUxCnzxzjjG0+Z/gjW8uh73lXN
>>> DOTF7jpt0ZmCm7uhG9z7
>>> =5Q2H
>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
>> organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
>> affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
>> Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics
>> Pro!
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>>
>

--047d7bfd05621f413704ee42ded5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Maybe it&#39;s because the arguments being presented are n=
onsensical and irrelevant to the current Bitcoin network topology, composed=
 of a small number of mining pools, not solo miners? Furthermore I think pe=
ople would realize that their mining pool has gone &quot;off the reservatio=
n&quot; so to speak.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 2=
3, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Allen Piscitello <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:allen.piscitello@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">allen.piscitello@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Ryan,<div><br></div><div>Wh=
y do you continue to try to correct people who clearly have put more though=
t into this than you? =A0Everyone understood you just fine, you just seem t=
o have trouble comprehending why your ideas are terrible.</div>

</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><d=
iv class=3D"h5">On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Ryan Carboni <span dir=3D"=
ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ryan.jc.pc@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ryan.jc.=
pc@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

</div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">I think you misunderstood my statement. If time &gt; 3 days, and a=
fter 4 blocks have been mined, then difficulty would be reset.<div>

<br></div><div>In theory, one would have to isolate roughly one percent of =
the Bitcoin network&#39;s hashing power to do so. Which would indicate an a=
ttack by a state actor as opposed to anything else. Arguably, the safest wa=
y to run Bitcoin is through a proprietary dial-up network.</div>


</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On=
 Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Mark Friedenbach <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:mark@monetize.io" target=3D"_blank">mark@monetize.io</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br>


</div><div><div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAG=
E-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
Ryan, these sort of adjustments introduce security risks. If you were<br>
isolated from the main chain by a low-hashpower attacker, how would<br>
you know? They&#39;d need just three days without you noticing that<br>
network block generation has stalled - maybe they wait for a long<br>
weekend - then after that the block rate is normal but completely<br>
controlled by the attacker (and isolated from mainnet).<br>
<br>
There are fast acting alternative difficulty adjustment algorithms<br>
being explored by some alts, such as the 9-block interval, 144-block<br>
window, Parks-McClellan FIR filter used by Freicoin to recover from<br>
just such a mining bubble. If it were to happen to bitcoin, there<br>
would be sophisticated alternative to turn to, and enough time to make<br>
the change.<br>
<div><div><br>
On 12/22/2013 07:10 PM, Ryan Carboni wrote:<br>
&gt; I think Bitcoin should have a sanity check: after three days if<br>
&gt; only four blocks have been mined, difficulty should be adjusted<br>
&gt; downwards.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This might become important in the near future. I project a<br>
&gt; Bitcoin mining bubble.<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)<br>
Comment: GPGTools - <a href=3D"http://gpgtools.org" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//gpgtools.org</a><br>
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - <a href=3D"http://www.enigmail.net/=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.enigmail.net/</a><br>
<br>
iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSt6yGAAoJEAdzVfsmodw4SegQAIJAWW0OgSjediSWq+EpkReS<br>
qMvC2Y9dmVHtowYLdJVcgwFWbpU8RhA6ApQ1Ks2XF4t0hFCObYDecG6Nl3OIaLfb<br>
snz24v8ymdxYXKNtzHHUP0VBgsaoRghIpkbf7JMUXC22sxPoPOXFt5RevLgJHrvc<br>
oGFZSIcEcGgwhwZ745CgFZLwaKuSmg5+wFFcrjIihlHKJOl47Z7rzeqnD6mf2Oi3<br>
hDpRuVbuhlGMliYcmhk1E6oV0in2R4Purw1WtoY8C9DxrSP2za7W1oeCkmlFfJZS<br>
to6SzRj7nEIl0LFaPGsIdBrRdDHfvu6eP2OecI+GNLEwLY6qE5v5fkh47mcDkrN0<br>
02PmepoX5PRzBqp4sx8WaFKuRbmTRRr3E4i9PGoyzTckkZzq+zFmb1y5fwOy17hE<br>
C+nP+DyuaPzjypjdo6V+/oGzUKtuKPtqcB1vurbm+WBl5C1jWosAXv5pR87mdCUJ<br>
+0e14wPra5blV6yBVqX7yx+2heDGymPKfHJ8i76Dtix7XVOJWKVY4OpIxO7YrYv8<br>
IKcIswoKhZdSDOJLcjm4Qp4hrzgCHAHWx6vN71r5r2T6zaJTOvp98GS04Yy7VGAr<br>
j38hojcwvJC1ahER3LV/vC0cqO+fxrvY8Q9rW2cUxCnzxzjjG0+Z/gjW8uh73lXN<br>
DOTF7jpt0ZmCm7uhG9z7<br>
=3D5Q2H<br>
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
</blockquote></div></div></div><br></div>
<br></div></div><div class=3D"im">-----------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------<br>
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT<br>
organizations don&#39;t have a clear picture of how application performance=
<br>
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your<=
br>
Java,.NET, &amp; PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynami=
cs Pro!<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D84349831&amp;iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D84349831&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>___________________=
____________________________<br>


Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--047d7bfd05621f413704ee42ded5--