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From: Paul Puey <paul@airbitz.co>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 14:07:18 -0800
Message-ID: <CABdy8DLRGyy5dvmVb_B3vao7Qwz-zdAC3-+2nJkg9rSsU6FLbw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01419d803d1a39050e5e8814
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal for P2P Wireless (Bluetooth LE)
 transfer of Payment URI
Precedence: list

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So if you picked up the BLE broadcast request. All you know is that
*someone* within 100m is requesting bitcoin at a certain address. Not
necessarily who. The *name* is both optional, and possibly just a *handle*
of the user. If I'm sitting 5 ft away from someone at dinner and wanted to
pay them via BLE, I might see "Monkey Dude" on my list and simply ask him
"is that you?" If so, I send it. If there are two "Monkey Dude's" Then I
have to bother with the address prefix, but not otherwise.


[image: logo]
*Paul Puey* CEO / Co-Founder, Airbitz Inc
+1-619-850-8624 | http://airbitz.co | San Diego
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On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> wrote:

> BLE has an advertised range of over 100m.
>
> http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/low-energy-tech-info.aspx
>
> In the case of mass surveillance that range could most likely be extended
> dramatically by the reviewer. I've seen  WiFi ranges of over a mile with a
> strong (not FCC approved) receiver.
>
> WiFi hotspots don't have strong identity or a guaranteed position, so they
> can't be trusted for location.
>
> e
>
> On Feb 5, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
>
> This sounds horrible. You could basically monitor anyone with a wallet in
>> a highly populated area and track them super easily by doing facial
>> recognition.
>>
>
> We're talking about BLE, still? The radio tech that runs in the so called
> "junk bands" because propagation is so poor?
>
> My watch loses its connection to my phone if I just put it down and walk
> around my apartment. I'm all for reasonable paranoia, but Bluetooth isn't
> going to be enabling mass surveillance any time soon. It barely goes
> through air, let alone walls.
>
> Anyway, whatever. I'm just bouncing around ideas for faster user
> interfaces. You could always switch it off or set it to be triggered by the
> presence of particular wifi hotspots, if you don't mind an initial bit of
> setup.
>
> Back on topic - the debate is interesting, but I think to get this to the
> stage of being a BIP we'd need at least another wallet to implement it?
> Then I guess a BIP would be useful regardless of the design issues. The
> prefix matching still feels flaky to me but it's hard to know if you could
> really swipe payments out of the air in practice, without actually trying
> it.
>
>
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">So if you picked up the BLE broadcast request. All you kno=
w is that *someone* within 100m is requesting bitcoin at a certain address.=
 Not necessarily who. The *name* is both optional, and possibly just a *han=
dle* of the user. If I&#39;m sitting 5 ft away from someone at dinner and w=
anted to pay them via BLE, I might see &quot;Monkey Dude&quot; on my list a=
nd simply ask him &quot;is that you?&quot; If so, I send it. If there are t=
wo &quot;Monkey Dude&#39;s&quot; Then I have to bother with the address pre=
fix, but not otherwise.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><=
div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><table bord=
er=3D"0" style=3D"font-size:medium;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">=
<tbody><tr valign=3D"top"><td style=3D"width:auto;vertical-align:top;white-=
space:nowrap"><img src=3D"https://s3.amazonaws.com/webapp.wisestamp.com/v7Z=
g7GfIQ9mF5xlHZrZA_airbitzlogo.png" alt=3D"logo" style=3D"border:none;border=
-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-right-radius=
:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px">=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:small">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0<br></span></td><td><span style=3D"font-size:small"><font color=
=3D"#3d85c6"><b>Paul Puey</b></font><font color=3D"#808080">=C2=A0</font><s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(136,136,136)">CEO / Co-Founder</span><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(136,136,136)">, Airbitz Inc</span></span><br><div style=3D"margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(128,128,128)"><a style=3D"color:rgb(128,128,128);outline:none;tex=
t-decoration:none">+1-6</a>19-850-8624=C2=A0</span></span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:small"><span style=3D"color:rgb(69,102,142)">|=C2=A0</span><a href=
=3D"http://airbitz.co/" style=3D"color:rgb(128,128,128);outline:none" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://airbitz.co</a></span><span style=3D"font-size:small;col=
or:rgb(128,128,128)">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:small;color:rgb(=
128,128,128)"><span style=3D"color:rgb(69,102,142)">|=C2=A0</span>San Diego=
</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top:5px"><a href=3D"http://facebook.com/a=
irbitz" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);outline:none" target=3D"_blank"><img =
src=3D"http://images.wisestamp.com/facebook.png" width=3D"16" style=3D"bord=
er:none"></a>=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://twitter.com/airbitz" style=3D"color:rg=
b(17,85,204);outline:none" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://images.wise=
stamp.com/twitter.png" width=3D"16" alt=3D"" style=3D"border:none"></a>=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/118173667510609425617" style=3D"color=
:rgb(17,85,204);outline:none" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://images.w=
isestamp.com/googleplus.png" width=3D"16" style=3D"border:none"></a>=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"https://go.airbitz.co/comments/feed/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,20=
4);outline:none" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://images.wisestamp.com/=
blogRSS.png" width=3D"16" style=3D"border:none"></a>=C2=A0<a href=3D"http:/=
/linkedin.com/in/paulpuey" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);outline:none" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://images.wisestamp.com/linkedin.png" width=
=3D"16" style=3D"border:none" alt=3D""></a>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://angel.c=
o/paul-puey" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);outline:none" target=3D"_blank">=
<img src=3D"http://images.wisestamp.com/angelList.png" width=3D"16" style=
=3D"border:none" alt=3D""></a></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style=3D=
"font-size:14px;margin-bottom:4px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;fo=
nt-weight:bold"><b style=3D"font-size:x-small;font-family:arial,sans-serif"=
>DOWNLOAD THE AIRBITZ WALLET:</b><br></div><span style=3D"font-size:medium;=
font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://play.google.com/=
store/apps/details?id=3Dcom.airbitz" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);outline:=
none;text-decoration:none" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://images.wise=
stamp.com.s3.amazonaws.com/apps/mobile_android.png" style=3D"border:none">=
=C2=A0</a></span><span style=3D"font-size:medium;font-family:Helvetica,Aria=
l,sans-serif"></span><span style=3D"font-size:medium;font-family:Helvetica,=
Arial,sans-serif"><a href=3D"https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/airbitz/id8435=
36046" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);outline:none;text-decoration:none" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://images.wisestamp.com.s3.amazonaws.com/app=
s/mobile_iphone.png" style=3D"border:none"></a></span><br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Eric Voskuil=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eric@voskuil.org" target=3D"_blank=
">eric@voskuil.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"auto"><div>BLE has an advertised range of over 100m.=C2=A0</div=
><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/low-energy-t=
ech-info.aspx" target=3D"_blank">http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/low-energy-=
tech-info.aspx</a><br><br><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,=
0)">In the case of mass surveillance that range could most likely be extend=
ed dramatically by the reviewer. I&#39;ve seen =C2=A0WiFi ranges of over a =
mile with a strong (not FCC approved) receiver.</span></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div>WiFi hotsp=
ots don&#39;t have strong identity or a guaranteed position, so they can&#3=
9;t be trusted for location.</div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba=
(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba=
(255,255,255,0)">e</span></div><div><br>On Feb 5, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Mike He=
arn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.ne=
t</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>This sounds horrible. You could basica=
lly monitor anyone with a wallet in a highly populated area and track them =
super easily by doing facial recognition.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div>We&#39;re talking about BLE, still? The radio tech that runs in =
the so called &quot;junk bands&quot; because propagation is so poor?</div><=
div><br></div><div>My watch loses its connection to my phone if I just put =
it down and walk around my apartment. I&#39;m all for reasonable paranoia, =
but Bluetooth isn&#39;t going to be enabling mass surveillance any time soo=
n. It barely goes through air, let alone walls.</div><div><br></div><div>An=
yway, whatever. I&#39;m just bouncing around ideas for faster user interfac=
es. You could always switch it off or set it to be triggered by the presenc=
e of particular wifi hotspots, if you don&#39;t mind an initial bit of setu=
p.</div><div><br></div><div>Back on topic - the debate is interesting, but =
I think to get this to the stage of being a BIP we&#39;d need at least anot=
her wallet to implement it? Then I guess a BIP would be useful regardless o=
f the design issues. The prefix matching still feels flaky to me but it&#39=
;s hard to know if you could really swipe payments out of the air in practi=
ce, without actually trying it.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></=
div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--089e01419d803d1a39050e5e8814--