Delivery-date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:36:45 -0800 Received: from mail-yb1-f189.google.com ([209.85.219.189]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1tBNqm-0002h9-R7 for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:36:45 -0800 Received: by mail-yb1-f189.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e292dbfd834sf132779276.3 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:36:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1731544598; x=1732149398; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:sender:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HmDudC32w23LMGFlysWi46pornQ3sjgdcOCdpOClZYI=; b=elBpDvgVlcgbNl/GfJl2dQ/n1DddpJovyH8uOdjy5RjsKtZNYpNmLULtyX9cpVOoeU tdp21vFUSIPD0T17ZeSNYlk5h2sBk7RX1NFHnf5eTqdykRS4XeX38+IA1VTRLxlDOTT0 boyv+Aqg3s1uQ53k+NAIe5uqZU+ZjaMBNXv/n4xgS3M85gAaTO9ShVp9yRUo9wc+GX8+ hBtKHZXHRur6kArWviVO/w2qZTiTBc4pcojy3FDsFh5qUd9z9ePS/1TE2trCMjO/O0KZ 0esgka8h/f+VsnpX9qz0ayHzfKrGAR3muzXj6+qCiN4nYM/Sn8YvrmDuNWQLgFp5fOjk cazw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1731544598; x=1732149398; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HmDudC32w23LMGFlysWi46pornQ3sjgdcOCdpOClZYI=; b=eNiSmeOhP012vBFcgIxQSmayFXDV2bcDi7Vf/fWn099CTGIwICJGJTfXGVEFxEJoou EJPB/GHTEmdIauy7u115e7OYivsiToXJSMHBMGsemVvv29xZ+V5oWPiGCqt+yoBVArGN 4SV+7Gi4dbO8uNVK06k7eIirhP2QjZNigIfAf1dL89ZLlH7pNDJOUdtNyotSS1FsEyGZ 0+WhICENPwE4dA4s4B1dZkaV7mHYHSUCMy3XTDQGU5tZMiGwNsdj93chJDrhuQEWMOe8 lZOOymsimPRgjjySQbK1RwUubmaUjZKtYCFtmlAZw/D2zpTkNDKYiSPZzoryfvWE3wid bu+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1731544598; x=1732149398; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:x-beenthere :x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=HmDudC32w23LMGFlysWi46pornQ3sjgdcOCdpOClZYI=; b=kJjP0Et7S3mknY93KHny1T9/hPn/axX8zuHLtsl7HK3dXsI/oKX683xgiOpAEVKePf S1qx8s97Tid9FFhj8r1WW+2wpfvPj1G0452r2/bB+HcEjg17dvvxx1H88wpggN3cgHXf vsArc+Yq8JuuSairC8+dnsK9b5O8xhoxC6dax9uxuBET+K4omh3B7VVVc8S93YQRt+ZE 2P2TaBMWHJmLm7lhhHZDg1N+AplA1tJJObCdVu+iikZDNQQztzpsx9FF5ITxJdoSqihM aKtVAmNcX29UFA7kxIbQZPiEHMXiQBydHhOWudiqUQccXJsIPYPg/5WGxhgVtIF9/TiU e8Cw== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUijaLWJYPuEseVwsgZxVgm0WGN9Z8HKiBhYFunRQjCQDFctr4MVHIojqYowSRtdU83hURkZbh2hsl1@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwzQKv8I2WG+Lbb1+QqTyeE63yOI5EreEpQHA4/R6VFqa/c1xyE S/TGcxI4IZvZT2r+QgKXYUoIexURG8A68zB8kUyWn/EjJtos8NGz X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEeEH0EwLH4ijWkxqoq99KEwI7BsYsy56Ru2jUhfko16rUW7YNxI81XZPtudMDihybwL+OUDg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:2184:b0:e2b:9967:6352 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e38140e50f8mr182192276.20.1731544598470; Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:36:38 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a05:6902:3290:b0:e29:2bfb:85f6 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e380e62c6d4ls417458276.1.-pod-prod-07-us; Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:36:36 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6801:b0:6ec:b108:e5ce with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6ecb108e6b8mr83938317b3.28.1731544596353; Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6406:b0:6ea:3075:201e with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6ecb3a2e621ms7b3; Tue, 12 Nov 2024 18:35:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6505:b0:6e3:153a:ff62 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6eadddb4ceamr198042947b3.23.1731465331405; Tue, 12 Nov 2024 18:35:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2024 18:35:31 -0800 (PST) From: Weikeng Chen To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: Broken links to the previous mailing list archive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_443084_1190815103.1731465331096" X-Original-Sender: weikeng.chen@l2iterative.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) ------=_Part_443084_1190815103.1731465331096 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_443085_1753812002.1731465331096" ------=_Part_443085_1753812002.1731465331096 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have two points. (1) I think it is a good idea for the Bitcoin mail lists to purchase a=20 domain of its own in the future because it is hard to expect any=20 open-source foundation to long live Bitcoin.=20 (2) From the previous=20 mail https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaz9OTSVa1KNk0GOrH3T-kRF_7OPVu0A= tpuaFGVB=3DzhdwQ@mail.gmail.com/,=20 it seems that Linux Foundation may be happy to do some redirects, maybe it= =20 could be coordinated? "Linux Foundation has either offered or agreed to maintain archive=20 permalinks so that content of historic importance is not lost. Fortunately= =20 for us while lists.linuxfoundation.org mailman will go down, they have=20 agreed the read-only pipermail archives will remain online." Weikeng On Wednesday, November 13, 2024 at 2:55:58=E2=80=AFAM UTC+7 Bryan Bishop wr= ote: > Hi, > > lists.linuxfoundation.org is no longer hosting the static HTML email > archives for bitcoin-dev or any other mailing list. We knew that this > might happen and prepared months ago with the mailing list migration > and also with various backups: > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQ= j_Z...@mail.gmail.com/=20 > > > However, many thousands of links around the web are still pointing to > the old archive. This is really unfortunate as there is a wealth of > content in the archive and these links were considered canonical. This > is a general plea to update any broken links that you might be able to > fix. > > What you can do, options > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > There are a few options for actions that effected content providers can= =20 > take: > > 1) Use `gnusha.org/url` . Explained below. > > 2) Replace lists.linuxfoundation.org urls with resolved urls to a new > location for mailing list archives. More on this below. > > 3) Do nothing. Wait and see. It is possible that we can plead our case > to Linux Foundation and get them to host static archives indefinitely, > or at least host redirects. > > 4) Replace broken links with Wayback Machine urls. Someone told me > apparently their archive is incomplete? I don't recommend this one > because I am concerned about stress and strain on the Internet Archive > Wayback Machine service beyond the additional activity that these > links would incur. Besides, Wayback is already a highly centralized > point for internet archival activity and therefore some > decenteralization is warranted here. > > > gnusha.org/url redirect service > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > This is a redirect service I made that takes a URL parameter and > redirects. To use it, get a previous url like: > > ` > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472.= html`=20 > > > your new url will be: > > ` > https://gnusha.org/url/https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoi= n-dev/2017-June/014472.html`=20 > > > and it will redirect to a current mailing list archive location for > that message: > > `https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ogoa6o$o4s$1...@blaine.gmane.org/`=20 > > > It uses a mapping file based on the mailing list archives. I have > published scripts to make this mapping here: > https://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b > > See https://gnusha.org/url for more information. Thank you to Jonas > Schnelli for suggesting the creation of this redirect service. > > > Manual resolution > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > How to "manually" resolve "without" the gnusha.org/url redirect > service. Use resolver.py here: > > https://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b#file-res= olver-py > and set RESOLVER_HOST to `https://gnusha.org/url` ,=20 > also set `resolver > =3D resolve_locally` to `resolver =3D resolve_remotely`. > > This will convert urls from the old LF format to resolved urls like: > ` > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQ= j_Z...@mail.gmail.com/`=20 > > or > ` > https://mailing-list.bitcoindevs.xyz/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw= 4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_Z...@mail.gmail.com/`=20 > > depending on which public-inbox mirror you choose to use. > > > Why resolve or not > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > I'll elaborate on `gnusha.org/url` vs ` > gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev` style urls. > > It is nice and simple to use a find-and-replace with `gnusha.org/url/`=20 > > because anyone can easily repeat that exercise and verify the git diff > before merging the pull request. However, the actual routing is not > something that is verified by just checking that the `git diff` looks > sane. > > If I was to provide my mapping (I haven't uploaded this yet, but I did > publish the scripts I used to make it, hopefully someone will > re-generate it to verify my work), then someone could write a script > and/or cross-verify that all of the replacements are valid according > to the mapping, if we were to use the destination urls instead of the > redirect service for this pull request. Then someone would be able to > verify that kind of pull request. > > There are other further issues though, like content malleability, > wrong redirect link injection, service provider compromise... instead > of referencing by Message-ID maybe in the future we can reference by > email hash.... But now I'm dreaming. > > > > - Bryan > https://x.com/kanzure > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= b2f2dadc-97b1-4333-8916-426292d5ec8cn%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_443085_1753812002.1731465331096 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have two points.

(1) I think it is a good idea for t= he Bitcoin mail lists to purchase a domain of its own in the future because= it is hard to expect any open-source foundation to long live Bitcoin.=C2= =A0

(2) From the previous mail=C2=A0https://gnus= ha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaz9OTSVa1KNk0GOrH3T-kRF_7OPVu0AtpuaFGVB=3DzhdwQ@= mail.gmail.com/, it seems that Linux Foundation may be happy to do some red= irects, maybe it could be coordinated?

"Linux Foundation has either offered or agreed to= maintain archive permalinks so that content of historic importance is not lost. Fortunately for us while lists.linuxfoundation.org mailman will go down, they have agreed the read-only pipermail archives will remain online."
Weikeng
On Wednesday, November 13, 2024 at 2:55:58=E2=80=AFAM UT= C+7 Bryan Bishop wrote:
Hi,

lists.linuxfoundation.org is no longer hosting the static HTML email
archives for bitcoin-dev or any other mailing list. We knew that this
might happen and prepared months ago with the mailing list migration
and also with various backups:
https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaS= BaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_Z...@mail.gmail.com/

However, many thousands of links around the web are still pointing to
the old archive. This is really unfortunate as there is a wealth of
content in the archive and these links were considered canonical. This
is a general plea to update any broken links that you might be able to
fix.

What you can do, options
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D

There are a few options for actions that effected content providers can= take:

1) Use `gnusha.org/url`. Explained below.

2) Replace lists.linuxfoun= dation.org urls with resolved urls to a new
location for mailing list archives. More on this below.

3) Do nothing. Wait and see. It is possible that we can plead our case
to Linux Foundation and get them to host static archives indefinitely,
or at least host redirects.

4) Replace broken links with Wayback Machine urls. Someone told me
apparently their archive is incomplete? I don't recommend this one
because I am concerned about stress and strain on the Internet Archive
Wayback Machine service beyond the additional activity that these
links would incur. Besides, Wayback is already a highly centralized
point for internet archival activity and therefore some
decenteralization is warranted here.


gnusha.org/url redirect service
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

This is a redirect service I made that takes a URL parameter and
redirects. To use it, get a previous url like:

`https://lists.= linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472.html`

your new url will be:

`https://gnusha.org/url/https://lists.linux= foundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472.html`

and it will redirect to a current mailing list archive location for
that message:

`https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ogoa6o$o4= s$1...@blaine.gmane.org/`

It uses a mapping file based on the mailing list archives. I have
published scripts to make this mapping here:
https://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc583= 44ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b

See https://gnusha.org/url for more informatio= n. Thank you to Jonas
Schnelli for suggesting the creation of this redirect service.


Manual resolution
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

How to "manually" resolve "without" the gnusha.org/url redirect
service. Use resolver.py here:
https= ://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b#file-resolver-p= y
and set RESOLVER_HOST to `https://gnusha.org/url`<= /a>, also set `resolver
=3D resolve_locally` to `resolver =3D resolve_remotely`.

This will convert urls from the old LF format to resolved urls like:
`https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABa= SBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_Z...@mail.gmail.com/`
or
`https= ://mailing-list.bitcoindevs.xyz/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b= =3DJZJPzPQj_Z...@mail.gmail.com/`
depending on which public-inbox mirror you choose to use.


Why resolve or not
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I'll elaborate on `gnusha.org/url` vs `gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev` style urls= .

It is nice and simple to use a find-and-replace with `gnusha.org/url/`
because anyone can easily repeat that exercise and verify the git diff
before merging the pull request. However, the actual routing is not
something that is verified by just checking that the `git diff` looks
sane.

If I was to provide my mapping (I haven't uploaded this yet, but I = did
publish the scripts I used to make it, hopefully someone will
re-generate it to verify my work), then someone could write a script
and/or cross-verify that all of the replacements are valid according
to the mapping, if we were to use the destination urls instead of the
redirect service for this pull request. Then someone would be able to
verify that kind of pull request.

There are other further issues though, like content malleability,
wrong redirect link injection, service provider compromise... instead
of referencing by Message-ID maybe in the future we can reference by
email hash.... But now I'm dreaming.



- Bryan
https://x.com/kanzure

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoind= ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind= ev/b2f2dadc-97b1-4333-8916-426292d5ec8cn%40googlegroups.com.
------=_Part_443085_1753812002.1731465331096-- ------=_Part_443084_1190815103.1731465331096--