From: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>
Message-Id: <BB3FA46E-AA09-4A60-9D0F-8E350015E107@sprovoost.nl>
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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 17:04:10 +0100
In-Reply-To: <57f5fcd8644c6f6472cd6a91144a6152@nym.zone>
To: nullius <nullius@nym.zone>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
References: <57f5fcd8644c6f6472cd6a91144a6152@nym.zone>
Cc: arachnid@notdot.net
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 39: Add language identifier strings for
 wordlists
Precedence: list


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I=E2=80=99m not a fan of language specific word lists within the current =
BIP-39 standard. Very few wallets support anything other than English, =
which can lead to vendor lock-in and long term loss of funds if a rare =
non-English wallet disappears.

However, because people can memorize things better in their native =
tongue, supporting multiple languages seems quite useful.

I would prefer a new standard where words are mapped to integers rather =
than to a literal string. For each language a mapping from words to =
integers would be published. In addition to that, there would be a =
mapping from original language words to matching (in terms of integer =
value, not meaning) English words that people can print on an A4 paper. =
This would allow them to enter a mnemonic into e.g. a hardware wallet =
that only support English. Such lists are more likely to be around 100 =
years from now than some ancient piece of software.

This would not work with the current BIP-39 (duress) password, but this =
feature could be replaced by appending words (with or without a checksum =
for that addition).

A replacement for BIP-39 would be a good opportunity to produce a better =
English dictionary as Nic Johnson suggested a while ago:
	=E2=80=A2 all words are 4-8 characters
	=E2=80=A2 all 4-character prefixes are unique (very useful for =
hardware wallets)
	=E2=80=A2 no two words have edit distance < 2

Wallets need to be able to distinguish between the old and new standard, =
so un-upgraded BIP 39 wallets should consider all new mnemonics invalid. =
At the same time, some new wallets may not wish to support BIP39. They =
shouldn't be burdened with storing the old word list.

A solution is to sort the new word list such that reused words appear =
first. When generating a mnemonic, at least one word unique to the new =
list must be present. A wallet only needs to know the index of the last =
BIP39 overlapping word. They reject a proposed mnemonic if none of the =
elements use a word with a higher index.

For my above point and some related ideas, see: =
https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/issues/103

Sjors

> Op 5 jan. 2018, om 14:58 heeft nullius via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> het volgende geschreven:
>=20
> I propose and request as an enhancement that the BIP 39 wordlist set =
should specify canonical native language strings to identify each =
wordlist, as well as short ASCII language codes.  At present, the =
languages are identified only by their names in English.
>=20
> Strings properly vetted and recommended by native speakers should =
facilitate language identification in user interface options or menus.  =
Specification of language identifier strings would also promote =
interface consistency between implementations; this may be important if =
a user creates a mnemonic in Implementation A, then restores a wallet =
using that mnemonic in Implementation B.
>=20
> As an independent implementer who does not know *all* these different =
languages, I monkey-pasted language-native strings from a popular wiki =
site.  I cannot guarantee that they be all accurate, sensible, or even =
non-embarrassing.
>=20
> =
https://github.com/nym-zone/easyseed/blob/1a6e48bbdac9366d9d5d1912dc062dfc=
3f0db2c6/easyseed.c#L99
> ```
> 	LANG(english,			u8"English",	"en",	=
ascii_space ),
> 	LANG(chinese_simplified,	u8"=E6=B1=89=E8=AF=AD",	=
"zh-CN",ascii_space ),
> 	LANG(chinese_traditional,	u8"=E6=BC=A2=E8=AA=9E",	=
"zh-TW",ascii_space ),
> 	LANG(french,			u8"Fran=C3=A7ais",	"fr",	=
ascii_space ),
> 	LANG(italian,			u8"Italiano",	"it",	=
ascii_space ),
> 	LANG(japanese,			u8"=E6=97=A5=E6=9C=AC=E8=AA=9E",	=
"ja",	u8"\u3000"  ),
> 	LANG(korean,			u8"=ED=95=9C=EA=B5=AD=EC=96=B4",	=
"ko",	ascii_space ),
> 	LANG(spanish,			u8"Espa=C3=B1ol",	"es",	=
ascii_space )
> ```
>=20
> Per the comment at #L85 of the quoted file, I also know that for my =
short identifiers for Chinese, =E2=80=9Czh-CN=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Czh-TW=E2=
=80=9D, are imprecise at best=E2=80=94insofar as Hong Kong uses =
Traditional; and overseas Chinese may use either.  For differentiating =
the two Chinese writing variants, are there any appropriate standardized =
or customary short ASCII language IDs similar to ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 =
which are purely linguistic, and not fit to present-day political =
boundaries?
>=20
> My general suggestion is that the specification of appropriate strings =
in bitcoin:bips/bip-0039/bip-0039-wordlists.md be made part of the =
process for accepting new wordlists.  My specific request is that such =
strings be ascertained for the wordlists already existing, preferably =
from the persons involved in the original pull requests therefor.
>=20
> Should this proposal be =E2=80=9Cconcept ACKed=E2=80=9D by appropriate =
parties, then I may open a pull request suggesting an appropriate format =
for specifying this information in the repository.  However, I will must =
needs leave the vetting of appropriate strings to native speakers or =
experts in the respective languages.
>=20
> Prior references:  The wordlist additions at PRs #92, #130 (Japanese); =
#100 (Spanish); #114 (Chinese, both variants); #152 (French); #306 =
(Italian); #570 (Korean); #621 (Indonesian, *proposed*, open).
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


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