Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A349C0032 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 15:33:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D56A40166 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 15:33:00 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 6D56A40166 Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (4096-bit key) header.d=opengroupware.ch header.i=@opengroupware.ch header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=dkim20160331 header.b=ilnyP14L X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RkznvjsECpW7 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 15:32:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.kolabnow.com (mx.kolabnow.com [212.103.80.154]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0E3740111 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 15:32:57 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org B0E3740111 Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mx.kolabnow.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA6820E15C6; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 16:32:55 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: ext-mx-out011.mykolab.com (amavis); dkim=pass (4096-bit key) reason="pass (just generated, assumed good)" header.d=opengroupware.ch DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= opengroupware.ch; h=mime-version:date:date:content-type :content-type:references:in-reply-to:from:from:subject:subject :message-id:received:received:received; s=dkim20160331; t= 1699975971; x=1701790372; bh=Mqi2VHt0M9M2ckTE7yDqgA4GeodS5xptiRL CUK9P3HM=; b=ilnyP14L+kTpRqnNs1DBUMe4XA0vvBbiT4rUfThXXHJHTxQhw5m SfzpOxy71C1BVlY7KPW9hcBd2g5lEV4lp3cJi4/0V2nWp5iE5Y6FJxgFZCKsnWUB GTgvC2QEkD37b5jIIPd+1OkaqsbnytAUrsrNg+x33J0MsMGmMyQNlcgAHZtgJSjB daSALnNdFIQ83FeE/Mg6kn6CKHnaecvw4RPCYf3Ae3xq/lS1ddkPfTG7hn7hkrP9 0BVveftIMSPk2ytTe68VORNiktankNhOqVHdGjPutWCU5ooolHwfhur2yenQZNkm En0kj/2Q8/PH6tx2y440PGZ9YPObABjbOhx+WN9MYWA6tSyK3qahDEfZvDDySp+J ATzXDiDdCMdD8DYXxwJxygPDt8yGbHCYRZd3OxQpEQyEIOFMs3iRV0dGgcDME2EP zZ0U8brW0zyQMTYUPnyBEP71ic/bb8ouywcDvcVQdF6M+8EWXtu/YSQ61zeKy+jx xwNy2EQCrOemBghP5WV7GDnaghvjgALqeQdW2ARne3P2ztq+7gcD4dvEMhj/7rEE qliGvNfOW0ToIhFfU6UkpMrFB9tNYbJn4fkdfmYL9RE/mnfwW+qVzrrJviBTG3Pe p5tbXhgVdxd9ov44AG/RqMfmkloJ2f991/6Ncs1DpzOOd4Jz1i7QJAWw= X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at mykolab.com Received: from mx.kolabnow.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ext-mx-out011.mykolab.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16hTVgOp299b; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 16:32:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from int-mx011.mykolab.com (unknown [10.9.13.11]) by mx.kolabnow.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 857DC20E13B2; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 16:32:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from ext-subm010.mykolab.com (unknown [10.9.6.10]) by int-mx011.mykolab.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8ADDD312B219; Tue, 14 Nov 2023 16:32:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: From: Overthefalls To: alicexbt In-Reply-To: References: <8abf319929b0a729eab5ad4659727ff250e10efd.camel@opengroupware.ch> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-9GvowObQwcjQpl6tN+DJ" Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:32:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 11:08:42 +0000 Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Future of the bitcoin-dev mailing list X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 15:33:00 -0000 --=-9GvowObQwcjQpl6tN+DJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi floppy disk guy, thanks for prompting me to look closer at Nostr, it's very interesting. I hope that whatever solution is chosen doesn't involve handing power over to a centralized entity that wants collect as much information on every living person as possible, and lock everyone and everything into using it's services forever. On Mon, 2023-11-13 at 18:51 +0000, alicexbt wrote: > Hi Overthefalls, > > > +1 > > > Using google for bitcoin mailing list is not good. It feels > embarrassing that some developers that built and maintained the only > decentralized network used to settle uncensored payments and some of > them even working on nostr, can't build their own mailing list which > is better than present mailing list. I have some ideas but it seems > the influential developers have already decided and wont accept > anything. > > Nostr can be used to build a mailing list which also allows anyone to > send emails apart from publishing events from different clients. We > just need a new NIP so that nostr relays understand its a different > event. There can be multiple front end with different levels of > moderation to hide some emails and ultimately one will be used the > most. It can use multiple relays and relays share some information in > NIP 11 which can include an email address. > > > /dev/fd0 > floppy disk guy > > > > > > > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > > > > > On Monday, November 13th, 2023 at 8:35 PM, Overthefalls via > bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 2023-11-07 at 09:37 -0600, Bryan Bishop via > > bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > Google Groups is another interesting option, > > > > I don't think I'm the only person on this list that is strongly > > opposed to using google for anything. They are too big and they > > have their hand in everything, and their eyes (and analytics) on > > everything. > > I remember when there were virtually no gmail email addresses that > > posted to this list. Suddenly in 2020 or 2021, we had an influx of > > gmail subscribers and posters. That didn't escape me then and it is > > not lost on me now. > > Email is great for public discussion for many reasons. The fact > > that everyone gets a copy of the data, there is no single central > > authority that can edit emails once they have been sent out. Anyone > > can archive email messages, they can generally store or publish the > > data anywhere they like. That is not the case with web forum > > content. > > I like the lightning anti-spam fee idea. That would encourage me to > > finally adopt lightning, and it would, I'm sure, produce some > > interesting results for the list. > > I don't think email should be out of the question. Does anyone > > besides kanzure@gmail.com think that sticking with email is out of > > the question? > > Let's do what's necessary to stick with email. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --=-9GvowObQwcjQpl6tN+DJ Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi floppy disk guy, thanks for prompting me to look closer at Nost= r, it's very interesting.

I hope that whatever so= lution is chosen doesn't involve handing power over to a centralized entity= that wants collect as much information on every living person as possible,= and lock everyone and everything into using it's services forever.


On Mon, 2023-11-13 at 18:51 +0000, alicexb= t wrote:
Hi Overthefalls,

+1

Using google for bitcoin= mailing list is not good. It feels embarrassing that some developers = that built and maintained the only decentralized network used to settle unc= ensored payments and some of them even working on nostr, can't build their = own mailing list which is better than present mailing list. I have some ide= as but it seems the influential developers have already decided and wont ac= cept anything.

Nostr can be used to build a mailing list which also = allows anyone to send emails apart from publishing events from different cl= ients. We just need a new NIP so that nostr relays understand its a differe= nt event. There can be multiple front end with different levels of moderati= on to hide some emails and ultimately one will be used the most. It can use= multiple relays and relays share some information in NIP 11 which can incl= ude an email address.

/d= ev/fd0
floppy disk guy

=20
=20
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

<= div class=3D"protonmail_quote"> On Monday, November 13th, 2023 at 8:35 PM, Overthefalls via bitcoin= -dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

On Tue, 2023-11-07 at 09:37 -0600, Bryan Bishop via bitcoi= n-dev wrote:
Google Groups is another inter= esting option,

I don't think I'm the only = person on this list that is strongly opposed to using google for anything. = They are too big and they have their hand in everything, and their eyes (an= d analytics) on everything.

I remember when there = were virtually no gmail email addresses that posted to this list. Suddenly = in 2020 or 2021, we had an influx of gmail subscribers and posters. That di= dn't escape me then and it is not lost on me now.

Email is great for public discussion for many reasons. The fact that every= one gets a copy of the data, there is no single central authority that can = edit emails once they have been sent out. Anyone can archive email messages= , they can generally store or publish the data anywhere they like. That is = not the case with web forum content.

I like the l= ightning anti-spam fee idea. That would encourage me to finally adopt light= ning, and it would, I'm sure, produce some interesting results for the list= .

I don't think email should be out of the questi= on. Does anyone besides kanzure@gmail.com think that s= ticking with email is out of the question?

Let's d= o what's necessary to stick with email.






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