Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2023 15:04:18 +0000
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Daniel Lipshitz <daniel@gap600.com>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <ZMke8q+5iDUH8fm+@petertodd.org>
References: <mailman.126799.1690753843.956.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
 <CACkWPs9JRYNd5bNGCZzihhywY1GDaXfSh858GhL7TrU=uzUB0A@mail.gmail.com>
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In-Reply-To: <CACkWPs9JRYNd5bNGCZzihhywY1GDaXfSh858GhL7TrU=uzUB0A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Pull-req to enable Full-RBF by default
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On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 01:26:11PM +0300, Daniel Lipshitz via bitcoin-dev w=
rote:
> This would unnecessarily and extremely negatively impact merchants and
> users who choose to accept 0-conf while using mitigation tools like GAP60=
0.
> This negative impact could be avoided by simply adding first seen safe ru=
le
> - ie a trx can be replaced but needs to include the original outputs.
>=20
> At GAP600 we continue to see strong use of our service for BTC we have se=
en
> circa 350k unique trx hash per month (over the last 3 months) requested to
> our platform. Our clients include - Coinpayments, Coinspaid and Changelly.

I checked, and Coinpayments and Coinspaid are both merchant processors. I c=
ould
not find any example of actual merchants using their platform accepting
unconfirmed payments. I also could not find any documentation on their webs=
ites
indicating unconfirmed transaction acceptance.

As for Changelly, their website says right on the front that "With an avera=
ge
transaction speed of 5=E2=80=9340 minutes, we ensure you can swiftly take a=
dvantage of
market opportunities." Obivously, 5 minutes is not an unconfirmed payment.

Additionally, I verified myself by doing test transactions with BIP125 disa=
bled
and an adequate fee: unconfirmed payments are not accepted by Changelly. As
their exchange flow clearly says "Once BTC is confirmed in the blockchain,
we=E2=80=99ll start exchanging it to <coin>."

You need to provide an genuine example of an actual merchant who accepts
unconfirmed transactions as payment, and actually relies on first-seen
behavior.

> We have not seen any impact of full RBF on double spend rates for our trxs

Based on the above findings, this appears to be because you don't actually =
have
any clients who rely on unconfirmed payments.

--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

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