00:02:50 rdymac has quit 00:05:44 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:11:21 samesong has quit 00:26:38 eristisk has quit 00:35:00 <[\\\]> [\\\] has quit 00:36:46 <[\\\]> [\\\] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:42:47 tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:44:42 WOODMAN has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:44:47 http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/03/05/linux-openssl-security/#comments 00:53:06 WOODMAN: why are you linking us to that? 00:53:56 alt ideas it says 00:54:26 WOODMAN: you want #litecoin 00:54:36 article is about bitcoin 00:55:01 that article is confused, I am not aware of any bitcoin article that uses gnutls. 00:55:04 litecoin is related as its built on same program 00:55:16 hmmmm good point 00:55:28 why would they not be bound by GNU license agreement? 00:55:47 same free software license agreement 00:55:52 is it not? 00:55:58 id say its highly relative 00:56:07 read my posts in comments 00:56:10 It is not relevant. 00:56:33 nanotube: Hows that quiz thing progressing? 00:56:38 lol 00:57:07 WOODMAN: you might also note the second sentence of the article. 00:58:09 yah and im eluding that litecoin has problem with wallet 00:58:26 Which is why you should be asking in #litecoin. 00:58:31 more to this story at 11 00:58:38 hey bud i just posted 00:58:45 like the paperboy leaving paper at the door 00:58:53 dont worry ill come back and ask for a tip later 01:02:36 samesong has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:12:25 rdymac has quit 01:12:26 DougieBot5000_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:14:18 DougieBot5000 has quit 01:16:44 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:20:43 roidster has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:24:16 weex has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:24:59 weex_ has quit 01:30:20 DougieBot5000_ has quit 01:39:43 andytoshi: you sure about that blind comment? I was thinking that rather you'd take the private key and a random value and use that to derrive the new private key and blinding factor. 01:39:55 andytoshi: since unlike a real blind signature nothing is really blind. 01:42:43 gmaxwell: pretty sure, give me a minute 01:43:05 andytoshi: I am bad and haven't opened up his paper and worked through any of the math. 01:43:38 math is largely propaganda anyway 01:43:44 :P 01:44:07 so, the way his protocol works is that the blindsigner starts by choosing two random values and sending keys based on these to the message holder 01:44:27 the message holder then tweaks the keys, basically, but without solving DL she can't tweak them to get a desired key 01:45:58 feh, you're going to make me open the paper. ... you understand that my goal there is to only end up in the state where every EC multiply has been blinded by a random factor. right? 01:46:28 yeah, i'll think about whether that's possible. but oleganza's paper definitely can't do it for you 01:46:28 so that someone who can learn what number is being multiplied by a side channel in the multiply learns nothing useful. 01:47:41 yeah, i got that, it's a usecase i hadn't considered for 'blind sigs' in which the blindsigner doesn't know the key 01:49:02 e.g. G*s = G*(s-a+a) = g*(s-a) + g*(a) and a is different every time. 01:49:22 i feel like i got something like this back when i was trying to get signer-visible keys from a variant of oleganza's scheme, i'll spend a few minutes trying to recreate it 01:56:58 Do you have a link to that paper? 01:57:27 davvblack: http://oleganza.com/blind-ecdsa-draft-v2.pdf 02:01:19 Luke-Jr, did you get a ride? 02:03:43 samesong has quit 02:04:37 i left about 90 minutes ago, he was still there..but every single mining company knew him so i think he'll be able to find someone 02:05:13 samesong has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:05:21 andytoshi, yeah im sure he can get a ride with someone from cointerra 02:05:35 just making sure he doesn't get stuck out there 02:09:26 samesong has quit 02:12:07 gmaxwell: nope, i don't think i can tweak oleganza's scheme to do what you want. maybe i can do it from scratch tho 02:12:28 generally with ecdsa the stupid nonce insists on being known by all parties, then ofc everybody can see the key.. 02:31:15 ttettra has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:33:13 tetra has quit 02:33:57 ttttetra has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:36:19 ttettra has quit 02:56:59 go1111111 has quit 03:09:38 go1111111 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:17:37 WOODMAN has quit 03:18:44 zzyzx has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:18:59 zzyzx 03:21:56 roidster has quit 03:34:01 wyager has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:34:28 shinybro has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:52:16 ttttetra has quit 03:53:54 is the question I just asked on #bitcoin-dev stupid or irrelevant? would it be more relevant here (next step is to replace pow with a centralized signature)? 03:57:33 tetra has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:59:06 jtimon: ... you haven't said anything there. 03:59:20 are you not registered with freenode? :P 04:00:52 no, I'm not, but I guess I will to answer that quiz 04:01:16 maybe I should do that now 04:01:46 are comments from non registered people automatically ignored or something? 04:02:06 bitcoin-dev is +r so you can only talk in there if you're registered. Your client should tell you this but I think some don't or only do subtly. 04:04:11 I see, thank you, last time I wasn't ignored there was that bdb fork night where I suggested using jgarzik's bittorrent to re-download the chain. I don't talk there very often so I didn't realized that 04:04:22 I'll register now then 04:12:22 jtimon is now known as jtimon2 04:13:20 jtimon2 is now known as jtimon 04:13:27 jtimon has quit 04:13:58 jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:16:29 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser 04:17:29 jtimon has quit 04:17:49 jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:20:41 jtimon has quit 04:21:00 jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:30:16 ageis_ is now known as ageis 04:36:18 qwdf has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:42:16 wallet42 has quit 04:43:48 samesong has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:43:51 samesong has quit 04:50:14 jtimon has quit 04:53:29 shesek has quit 05:00:15 jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:12:46 wyager has quit 05:32:56 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] 05:41:12 tromp has quit 05:46:08 shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:55:13 spinza has quit 05:55:28 spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:04:01 shinybro has quit 06:06:52 adam3us has quit 06:07:48 adam3us has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:08:34 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser 06:10:26 jtimon: uh, a year ago? 06:18:44 Ursium has quit 06:29:27 TD has quit 06:59:33 Ksipax has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:59:47 Ksipax has quit 07:00:04 Ksipax has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:00:59 pajarillo has quit 07:01:21 go1111111 has quit 07:01:27 michagogo|cloud yep that's the last time I remember being answered, maybe there was a more recent time, I can't remember since, as said I don't use that channel much, mostly lurk, when was that registration requirement put on? 07:06:58 Idk 07:07:13 It's been like that for a while, I think 07:08:32 yes for a pretty long while, I was stung by it once too, didn't see the messages that my messages were rejected... unfortunately it's necessary because of all the spam and scam in bitcoin-releated channels 07:12:26 the worst is when chanserv goes away and I can't talk there at all. 07:12:50 pajarillo has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:14:07 gmaxwell: chanserv? 07:14:16 er nickserv 07:14:22 Ah 07:14:55 (Though I'm pretty sure one won't be dead without the other, now that I think about it) 07:15:24 They're both part of Atheme 07:23:19 go1111111 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:26:21 RoboTeddy has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:40:01 RoboTeddy has quit 07:52:31 jtimon has quit 07:57:41 Ksipax has quit 08:26:39 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:40:34 TD has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:44:56 tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:48:28 zzyzx has quit 08:49:21 tromp has quit 08:49:58 c0rw1n has quit 08:53:29 ens has quit 09:02:24 ens has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:06:53 MoALTz has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:06:55 ens has quit 09:09:34 c--O-O has quit 09:09:34 c--O-O has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:09:34 c--O-O has quit 09:09:34 c--O-O has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:15:43 go1111111 has quit 09:22:02 fanquake has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:27:59 iddo has quit 09:27:59 iddo has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:34:23 TD has quit 09:41:17 e4xit has quit 09:41:35 e4xit has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:41:35 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 09:42:49 e4xit has quit 09:43:07 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:43:26 TD has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:43:51 e4xit has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:46:41 go1111111 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:48:40 TD has quit 09:48:42 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 09:50:23 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:05:38 rdymac has quit 10:09:44 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:26:49 go1111111 has quit 10:29:15 <_ingsoc_> _ingsoc_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:31:58 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 10:33:29 <_ingsoc_> _ingsoc_ has quit 10:34:16 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:16:59 nsh has quit 11:25:28 antephialtic has quit 11:25:57 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:28:13 nsh has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:28:14 nsh has quit 11:28:14 nsh has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:33:29 antephialtic has quit 11:33:47 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:39:02 :( satoshi 11:39:48 fanquake has quit 11:44:16 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 11:45:04 nsh has quit 11:48:17 Ksipax has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:51:34 Emcy has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:00:38 nsh has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:01:50 poor guy - regardless of whether he is actually _the_ satoshi 12:04:52 what you guys on about? 12:06:08 as posted in #bitcoin earlier: http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto.html 12:09:43 nsh has quit 12:10:14 austinhill has quit 12:11:52 nsh has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:21:38 spinza has quit 12:23:43 c0rw1n has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:43:39 TD has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:44:35 nsh has quit 13:00:29 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:00:52 avantgeek has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:03:24 Emcy has quit 13:04:01 Ksipax has quit 13:22:40 wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:31:15 nsh has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:40:47 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 13:40:52 davvblack has quit 13:52:25 nsh has quit 13:53:08 gavinandresen has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:53:44 Emcy has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:09:07 Ksipax has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:25:52 poor guy 14:29:46 spinza has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:30:02 tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:32:13 Ursium has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:33:50 antephialtic has quit 14:34:40 samesong has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:38:00 hopefully he doesn't have to move or sell is car 14:45:10 qwdf has quit 14:46:38 It amuses me how the article quotes "disk space" and says how it hasn't been an issue since the last millennium 14:47:30 gavinandresen has quit 14:47:50 shinybro_ has quit 14:50:18 <[\\\]> [\\\] has quit 14:51:01 shinybro has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:52:06 i used it in a sentence couple minutes ago 14:52:09 gavinandresen has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:52:09 gavinandresen has quit 14:52:09 gavinandresen has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:52:28 admin gave me 10gb on a virtual machine :/ 14:52:46 cant store bitcoin on that 14:57:22 how big is the blockchain these days? 15:00:25 nearly 20gb 15:01:51 its size is ballooning nowadays 15:03:52 that's not as bad as i expected 15:05:19 stonecoldpat, i've given up on VMs. I have a small family of little atom based dedi's... you can get a 500GB atom server for like €9/mo 15:05:59 i prefer to have a handful of little servers than 1 big momma so i can experiment more 15:07:03 might have a look into that, atom server is just a combination of smaller servers put together ? 15:08:04 Intel Atom CPU 15:08:13 ahh ok, thats shows my ignorance in hardware 15:10:32 I'm not sure how such a weak cpu would cope syncing the blockchain 15:11:03 i might give it a go sometime, or maybe do it locally and rsync it 15:14:01 vdo has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:16:43 nsh has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:23:13 super3 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:26:39 so who wants to write a brief press release on reprehensible journalistic practice? 15:29:48 meanwhile: 15:29:49 -- 15:29:49 Abstract. We apply the FLUSH+RELOAD side-channel attack based on cache hits/misses to extract a small amount of data from OpenSSL ECDSA signature requests. We then apply a “standard” lattice technique to extract the private key, but unlike previous attacks we are able to make use of the side-channel information from almost all of the observed executions. This means we obtain private key recovery by observing a relatively small number of executions, a 15:29:50 nd by expending a relatively small amount of post-processing via lattice reduction. 15:29:50 We demonstrate our analysis via experiments using the curve secp256k1 used in the Bitcoin protocol. In particular we show that with as little as 200 signatures we are able to achieve a reasonable level of success in recovering the secret key for a 256-bit curve. This is significantly better than prior methods of applying lattice reduction techqniques to similar side channel information. 15:30:00 -- http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/161.pdf 15:30:06 (via: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/03/scientist-devised-crypto-attack-could-one-day-steal-secret-bitcoin-keys/ ) 15:30:36 Hunger-- has quit 15:31:11 c0rw1n has quit 15:31:55 bitcoin is hacked right. i should sell everything? 15:34:50 yes, to me, at firesale prices 15:35:03 in fact, just sign over power of attorney; it'll save us time 15:39:26 super3 no shutup 15:39:42 he he 15:39:57 are cache hit/misses transparent to virtual machines or do context switches between VMs effectively flush caches? 15:40:10 I bet there are a lot of people out there with private keys on VMs 15:40:24 good question 15:40:27 (s) 15:40:35 im ashamed of the amount of coin i've made from people panic selling 15:41:23 you know what they say in that old proverb about he who profits from catastrophes, but can't afford apostrophes? 15:41:36 neither do i, but shut up anyway. 15:43:26 HM, storing wallets on VMs are probably a semi-bad idea(for the paranoid) in any case unless you control the hardware 15:43:42 im curious if VMs can make use of TPM, and perhaps solve that problem 15:44:49 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:45:36 Yes of course, but people will nethertheless do it 15:45:49 Hunger- has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:47:31 gavinandresen has quit 15:48:53 antephialtic has quit 15:51:05 DougieBot5000 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:51:32 super3: hot wallets 15:52:09 TPM probably makes the timing attacks worse, since it's slower hardware 15:52:47 maaku, explain. I don't know too much about TPM. 15:54:32 a TPM can't do ECDSA signing, so its irrelevant 15:58:36 HM: the trust zone can, which is sometimes what people mean... 15:58:59 trust zone? 15:59:59 is the attack observing while 200 arbitrary signatures are calculated? 16:00:25 or do the signatures need to conform to some parameters? 16:00:33 (signed data, that is) 16:00:39 i haven't read it 16:01:04 TD has quit 16:01:12 i saw a cool presentation about timing intel cpus during microcode updates 16:01:28 the authors were able to determine the construction of the encryption and MAC used by Intel for their microcode updates 16:01:36 as far as VMs, i think the more common case is the attacker having control of the dirty VM that has no private keys, with the host OS holding the keys 16:02:13 (even though its performed in hardware and not documented) 16:02:44 that is quite some divination 16:04:11 http://inertiawar.com/microcode/ 16:04:33 some of its actually binary reverse engineering, but its 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