00:08:57 gmaxwell, did bc.i fix the xss in coinbase data? 00:10:03 Yes. 00:10:56 antephialtic has quit 00:11:03 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:11:50 c0rw1n has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:12:08 gmaxwell, too bad 00:12:20 i have enough room for an element 00:12:30 whoa, fun, how was it found? it seems pretty expensive to test 00:12:52 comboy, < randomly appears in the coinbase anyways 00:12:59 ah 00:13:01 so im guessing the page rendering was messed up 00:15:42 comboy: it's not hard to get pools to put in custom coinbase text for you, eligius will for example. 00:16:10 and if you're p2pool mining you control your own coinbase text— requires you to find a block however. :) 00:17:28 interesting about eligius, I would imagine it's still expensive though? ;) 00:18:16 comboy: at least at one point they did it for free per request by any miner. 00:19:04 oh, that's cool, it would work nicely as my backup solution 00:19:05 "free per request" is still "just free", no? 00:19:16 I'd need extremely good compression and very long time though ;) 00:21:33 wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:22:28 btw was there somewhere a chart of avg fee pr kb? 00:26:01 rdymac_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:26:11 rdymac has quit 00:26:11 rdymac_ is now known as rdymac 00:26:22 I just mean that you had to ask, and presumably if you started trying to backup data that way you'd be told no. 00:29:01 shesek has quit 00:29:05 execut3 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:29:27 jk, but that's a pretty cool feature 00:29:57 DBordello has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:30:10 I mean that they are/were letting people do this, not the backup part 00:30:21 DBordello is now known as Guest55492 00:31:55 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 00:33:00 licnep has quit 00:36:49 shinybro has quit 00:42:38 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser 00:49:22 shinybro has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:51:15 rdymac has quit 00:54:31 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:54:34 realazthat has quit 00:56:11 roconnor has quit 00:56:28 realazthat has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:56:28 realazthat has quit 00:56:28 realazthat has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:04:58 execut3 is now known as shesek 01:21:18 https://plus.google.com/116222474455279966224/posts/AgrefHgP4aK 01:24:29 Guest55492 has quit 01:30:18 shinybro has quit 01:31:39 "Handling clients money in Assembly for dummies" 01:38:52 jgarzik has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:40:46 shinybro has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:46:07 DBordello has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:46:26 DBordello has quit 01:46:26 DBordello has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:11:36 gmaxwell, dear god this is so much data 02:11:41 antephialtic has quit 02:13:14 fanquake has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:16:39 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:29:03 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] 02:33:57 wallet42 has left #bitcoin-wizards 02:53:37 licnep has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:05:42 antephialtic has quit 03:06:05 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:12:39 eristisk has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:18:16 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser 03:27:15 jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:32:30 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] 03:37:10 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser 03:44:11 c0rw1n has quit 03:51:26 Dizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:06:14 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] 04:06:29 gmaxwell: wow https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=497737.0 04:06:38 i wanted to say it too but 04:06:47 i signed their dumb nda 04:07:03 maaku_: assembly might be an improvement for some 04:07:19 and although i think it might not be legally binding i still err on the side of caution 04:08:33 tacotime: I offered them an alterntive NDA, but alas they chose to not respond to me instead. It's almost certantly no binding in any way shape or form, but yea, wouldn't encourage you to encourage them to give you trouble. 04:09:29 rdymac has quit 04:10:06 tacotime: you may like the revised NDA I had proposed to them: http://0bin.net/paste/pVUtGcHihaoCLrlu#RpeIps564F55dbWRz1U28blAHreBM2yhuth2TKqX/Ls= 04:12:01 Ursium has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:12:22 gmaxwell: that's not really that bad, though i imagine they'll struggle with (d) 04:12:29 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:12:57 my favourite thing was when they put, "customers must disparage and criticize HashFast products in a public space" in the refund contract. 04:13:03 yea.. lol 04:13:07 disparagement agreement. 04:13:45 I think it's reprehensible to threaten people who you've truly and honestly ripped off for complaining about your ripping. I don't feel like I could agree to any NDA with a company that would do that. 04:15:07 in any case, I was debating on when I should start really hitting back against them with some force, their belief that they can get away with promoting a new product while many people are out completely was sort of a last straw for me. 04:15:17 it is. the whole situation has been a mess since october. 04:16:18 yeah, i thought it was obscene when i saw that. i'm glad i at least got my asics but i feel awful for the people who haven't gotten anything yet or are waiting on upgrades. 04:18:24 they don't seem super interested in helping the pending legal cases against them. 04:18:33 which is baffling. 04:19:22 who's in barbados? 04:20:09 i wish. i'm just going to texas this week. 04:40:23 warren maaku_ what's with assembly? I kind of enjoyed reading the SSE2 manual to optimize my neural networks on the co-processor 04:41:48 cpacia has quit 04:45:13 or were you talking void...I mean...ether? 04:55:54 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser 05:14:01 emsid has quit 05:14:56 Dizzle has quit 05:16:33 emsid has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:27:57 tromp has quit 05:28:29 tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:32:39 tromp has quit 05:46:17 rdymac has quit 05:47:33 wyager has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:48:04 Ursium has quit 05:59:15 Ursium has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:59:23 Ursium has quit 06:08:05 wyager has quit 06:17:53 gmaxwell: really? they wouldn't even look up another airline for me :/ 06:18:21 Luke-Jr: they're supposted to under normal contracts. They don't offer it though, dunno if you asked what was going on there. 06:18:54 at this point, I don't think they even refunded me :/ 06:31:10 davvblack has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:37:03 adam3us has quit 06:37:30 adam3us has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:53:00 licnep has quit 07:14:58 shinybro has quit 07:50:08 Ksipax has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:56:17 antephialtic has quit 07:57:23 copumpkin has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:10:10 if any php wizards want to check mtgox's code— you can actually see the spending code takes an array for 'forced inputs' 08:10:42 but I think it has a bug where it won't actually force any intputs that were used in another transaction, because it checks if they're in an unspent list and skips them. 08:12:20 gmaxwell: interesting if they got the tx db too 08:14:07 gmaxwell: implications of what you said ^^ for abuse of tx malleability + their coding sending diff inputs being responsible for theft of funds? 08:14:26 yes. 08:15:07 I knew from magicaltux that their code would 'sometimes but not always' conflict inputs when reissuing, well the code responsible for that appears to be there. 08:15:59 http://pastebin.com/W8B3CGiN line 162 08:16:28 is there any code that automatically reissues? 08:18:41 kinda, thats the code that the reissue would (presumably) use 08:19:00 the interesting thing is I can't square it with their recent behavior of doublespending inputs 08:19:10 so I think there may have been a change. 08:19:28 Basically their forced input logic is broken in that it won't force any inputs if it doesn't think they're available 08:20:22 gmaxwell: but its concept of availability is the tx db? 08:20:44 But at line 876 it seems to synchronize its claims with the blockchain. 08:21:30 so thats compatible with the idea that the transaction they were trying to conflict with being successful would cause them to fail to conflict (doh!) 08:21:34 damn, so much rounding, type casts to int and magic numbers 08:21:43 but not compatible with their observed self-doublespending at all. 08:22:24 so now I'm wondering if they didn't— a couple months ago— comment out that synchronization with the blockchain on 876 in order to try to make it not fail to conflict with itself when it needed to 08:22:26 maybe there's something wrong with the queries including and just after 177 08:22:38 but by doing that made it constantly doublespend itself. 08:23:08 well thats why I think someone php clueful needs to look at this, my last php expirence was over 5 years ago and in a much cleanear and abstracted codebase (mediawiki) 08:23:41 there are also syntax errors 08:23:44 like line 91 08:24:58 you cant [] for array literal 08:26:49 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:32:51 Krellan_ has quit 08:33:22 if this code leak is real, I suddenly feel much better about the payment backend code I'm working on @ work 08:33:36 lol 08:33:43 I mean, look how many order by RAND() are in there 08:35:04 antephialtic has quit 08:36:55 I like that it uses variables like $block_size to mean blocks per block reward amount. 08:38:44 davvblack: well coin selection... not so awful there. 08:39:01 erm, i mean it's still bad from a dba standpoint 08:39:11 it needs to assign a rand() to each row 08:39:16 I give this code 99.9% chance of being real, though it might be moderately old. 08:41:29 and as per our previous conversation, no === 08:47:44 this code seems to have no ability to handle reorgs. 08:48:36 he'd probably say he didn't know about reorgs, and that reorgs are a "bitcoin bug" 09:01:59 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:09:59 antephialtic has quit 09:10:29 Ksipax has quit 09:12:15 Ksipax has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:12:32 Ksipax has quit 09:12:40 jtimon has quit 09:20:24 roidster has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:23:29 zzyzx has quit 09:32:49 Emcy has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:47:58 Persopolis has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:58:58 ::sigh:: I posted on reddit about how MTGox green addresses might have massively amplified these problems (inspired by someone elses ranty thing that was arguing that systemic risk can't exist in bitcoin) 09:59:17 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zef5c/green_addresses_an_accidentally_dodged_bullet/ 09:59:41 and one of the responses is from https://greenaddress.it/ who seems themselves to be confused and think I'm talking about their service. 10:01:44 MoALTz has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:09:47 lol... 10:12:00 "Unlike other systems our implementation allows users to login in watch-only mode, meaning that their private keys are not in the browser at all." -- except bc.i offers this same functionality 10:12:08 >.< 10:14:03 airbreather: I don't think there is any way to _sign_ if you're using bc.i that way. 10:15:57 ahh, I see what I missed -- you can have them still be in charge of your bitcoins, but log in in a way that makes it so you can't spend them. so, doesn't solve the fundamental problem 10:18:59 and of course, 100% beside the point of actual green addresses 10:19:37 yea, mind blown at the otness of it all 10:21:41 shinybro__ has quit 10:40:59 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] 10:52:59 So the "Hardfork Wishlist" wiki page lists the following: "coinbases must be parseable." <-- wouldn't that be possible with a BIP0034-style valid-under-old/invalid-under-new softfork? 10:54:32 assuming I'm using the term "softfork" correctly... if I'm not, pretend I didn't say that, and I really just mean the upgrade process BIP0034 implemented 11:00:59 oooooo_m has quit 11:10:46 roidster has quit 11:10:56 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:13:52 oooooo_m has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:14:07 TD has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:44:05 aksyn has left #bitcoin-wizards 11:44:48 bebopzzz has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:46:46 nomailing has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:53:49 nomailing has quit 12:10:19 UukGoblin has quit 12:10:19 UukGoblin has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:23:03 oooooo_m is now known as oooooo 12:26:02 samson_ has quit 12:26:37 samson_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:33:27 TD has quit 12:46:04 nsh has quit 12:47:07 fanquake has quit 12:48:24 orperelman has quit 12:48:31 TD has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:02:45 TD has quit 13:21:38 Ursium has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:28:26 phantomcircuit has quit 13:29:02 Anduck has quit 13:30:17 Anduck has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:31:54 phantomcircuit has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:35:13 sirius_ has quit 13:35:53 sirius has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:36:12 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:42:20 orperelman has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:43:42 perrier_ has quit 13:44:03 perrier_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:46:58 sirius has quit 13:48:26 sirius has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:59:38 sirius has quit 14:00:50 sirius has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:02:11 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 14:02:39 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:16:28 maaku_ has quit 14:16:51 maaku has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:17:15 maaku is now known as Guest46684 14:28:14 Ksipax has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:34:53 c0rw1n has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:44:47 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:52:59 TD has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:54:22 gmaxwell: ping 14:59:49 wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:05:49 DBordello has quit 15:32:48 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser 15:34:24 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 15:37:13 DougieBot5000 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:43:01 jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:44:25 <[\\\]> [\\\] has quit 15:49:19 mikalv has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:56:02 So, on MtGox customer info... anybody have additional data? does this mean a bunch of high profile bitcoiners, including myself, have their MtGox high res passport scans floating around? 15:56:13 That would be disappointing, but not entirely unexpected. 16:01:23 there's no confirmation of the data being in the wild. just some guy saying 'we have the db dump' 16:02:03 and vaguely promising to post a torrent 16:02:05 eventually 16:02:39 worst part is that afair I tried submitting scan with watermark saying it's for their use only and date and it was not accepted :/ 16:03:32 i submitted notarized paper. dunno if they scanned it into their db, or if it's still safely in a file cabinet somewhere 16:07:46 nanotube: given this code source leak which looks sadly legit, I'd assume they really have the db 16:08:20 comboy: i'm not making bets one way or the other. code could be sitting around on various dev machines 16:08:42 or copies floating around in emails or usb sticks 16:08:58 db is less likely to be hanging around in bits and pieces all over the place 16:09:22 well, maybe, hopefully 16:09:51 but certainly Pr(db is leaked | code is leaked) is greater than the prior of Pr(db is leaked) 16:10:08 bebopzzz has quit 16:11:20 I only coded php on a small project at college, but 1719 lines in a single file, the mentioned castings, not using constants for constant values... 16:18:14 antephialtic has quit 16:18:29 the whole passport scan+utility bill thing is a horrible standard anyway 16:18:56 if the whole thing does leak, i guess exchanges will have to go to doing video chats to confirm id 16:19:05 as simple posession won't mean anything any more 16:20:26 right 16:20:45 but until they do, expect plenty of fake jgarzik's on the various exchanges. >_> 16:21:19 yeah interesting thought 16:21:43 their code does indeed look lik a big mess 16:21:55 not to mention that php is not the language to write an exchange in 16:21:59 passports should have a private key for digital signatures like some countries id cards 16:22:28 jtimon: several passports do have a chip.... 16:22:55 all new passports have chips. unfortunately, chips that sign with private keys are ... optional 16:22:58 yeah, a chip, but can you sign legal documents with that chip? 16:23:08 it's not designed for that 16:23:13 TD oh, so it's possible 16:23:23 for most passports it's not possible. the chip is just a data repository 16:23:26 is a scan legal? 16:23:37 can I order stuff with just a scan? 16:23:38 well banks take photocopies of passports, in my experience 16:23:40 well, some countries id cards (spain) are designed for that 16:23:42 so a scan is i guess normal 16:23:55 jtimon: yes sure. some countries operate their own citizen PKI's 16:24:12 TD: It's so sad you are correct... it opens so many ways to get abused for us 16:24:34 they have email, id, name, address, everything :( 16:24:34 for any institution that needs strong ID verification 16:24:43 it's not just a bitcoin specific problem 16:24:53 TD: I've opened my latest bank account online, without much verification.... 16:24:55 id theft is a huge issue, especially in the usa where so much is keyed off social security numbers 16:25:02 interesting 16:25:04 how did you do that? 16:25:32 I just went to my banks website, filled in a form, pasted a copy of my id card and they mailed me my bank-card back 16:25:43 "pasted a copy"? 16:25:44 debet card AND credit card :) 16:25:53 photocopy of my id card 16:26:21 right 16:26:28 so they don't actually use crypto, even though your id card supports it? 16:26:45 well, for the credit card I had to give them a copy of my salary card (how to translate that word:P) 16:26:56 TD: exactly. 16:27:04 that's scary, so anyone could just create an account in your name if the id cards/passports are leaked? 16:27:04 fail 16:27:12 probably not worth the complexity 16:27:16 even if there was crypto... that'd just mean people will try to steal the privkeys 16:27:19 i guess you'd need a smartcard reader and most people don't have one 16:27:29 TD: however, it might have been possible they contacted the governement to get my address - they did had to send my info somewhere 16:27:45 in the end, a bank with an official licence has access to certain governement databases 16:27:49 i don't have an ID card, but swapped a photocopy of my passport + some money for a USB smartcard dongle thing that i can use to log in to a bunch of swiss websites 16:28:04 but most people won't do that 16:28:25 thinking about it though, i think the passport copy mt gox has for me is actually expired. plus the utility bill has to be fresher than 3 months 16:28:26 TD: so you can login to any swiss site that requires an id card? 16:28:29 zooko has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:28:31 yeah 16:28:39 TD: are you swiss? 16:28:45 no 16:28:49 mmmmz 16:28:52 i live here 16:29:01 you sound american (no offence) 16:29:22 i'm british 16:29:27 I don't think I ever send a utility bill, but it's been a while since last time I used that exchange 16:29:29 nearly the same thing :) 16:29:30 close 'nuff :p 16:29:59 well, I didn't even got confirmed yet 16:30:03 I was in the queue 16:30:21 so I'm definatly going to be in a "hot database", if such a thing exists 16:30:29 I think at some point the id card was enough 16:31:04 Krellan_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:35:59 <[\\\]> [\\\] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:39:59 Ksipax has quit 16:47:27 ens has quit 16:47:36 ens has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:58:48 licnep has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:11:50 wallet42 has quit 17:13:58 (scrolling back) 17:14:07 TD, I'm surprised people have not already moved to video chat security 17:14:17 TD, maybe it's too obvious and "dumb" 17:18:27 jgarzik, que 17:21:00 phantomcircuit, a wealth of biometrics can be easily captured by a video chat 17:21:13 phantomcircuit, and easily measured against future video chats 17:21:30 OpenBiometrics has some fun tools 17:25:52 “The new generation of Kinect technology in Xbox One can distinguish up to six voices in a room, respond to voice commands, read skeletal movement, muscle force, whether people are looking at or away from the TV and even their heart rates. 17:26:03 http://adage.com/article/special-report-ana-annual-meeting-2013/xbox-reshape-marketing/244605/ 17:26:33 so yeah 17:28:44 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:32:37 orperelman has quit 17:32:59 antephialtic has quit 17:33:25 spin123456 is now known as spinza 17:40:50 wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:42:57 wallet42 has quit 17:43:15 wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:47:52 Hm. I wonder under what conditions open("/dev/urandom", O_RDONLY | O_CLOEXEC) can return a negative return value. 17:48:53 zooko: out of file handles? 17:49:25 Guest46684: yeah, I was wondering about that too. 17:50:01 Guest46684 is now known as maaku 17:50:12 maaku: hi there! ☺ 17:50:22 :) 17:52:44 I wonder if there are other cases. 17:53:35 In particular, I'm wondering whether I can deliberately trigger a process on your linux machine to get -1 from open("/dev/urandom"). 17:53:56 And I'm also wondering if open() will ever return any other negative number than -1. 18:00:45 phantomcircuit: for exchange KYC verification 18:00:56 it seems exchanges spend a lot of time trying to divine whether a scanned passport/bill is forged or not 18:01:07 seems doing a 20 second video chat with support staff could resolve the question reliably 18:05:18 Dizzle has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:06:38 18:23:56 jtimon: yes sure. some countries operate their own citizen PKI's 18:06:38 Including Israel, sort of 18:06:54 perhaps in future more localised exchanges can use these 18:07:16 We're in the 2-year trial phase of a program for new, smart ID cards and e-passports 18:08:24 They embed biometric data (photo and two index fingerprints), and the ID card has a smartcard contact on it. With the card, they give you a USB reader, which will allow you to connect the card to your computer and use it for authentication and signing 18:08:52 yeah 18:08:58 At the moment, though, I don't think there's anything you can do with it -- Windows detects and auto-installs a driver for the reader 18:09:13 normally you can sign PDFs with it, and that's legally binding. also mine lets you log into websites using SSL client certs 18:09:23 i don't have an ID card though. my "card" is a SIM form factor 18:09:34 seems like swiss identity cards let you choose whether you have a chipped one or not 18:09:34 And when you insert the card, it's recognized as a smart card, but AFAICT there's nothing that you can do with it 18:10:00 you can probably use it with anything that supports PKCS #11 tokens, i think 18:10:04 there's a standard for crypto smartcards 18:10:08 Eventually, they say they'll release the software for it 18:10:19 TD, i've actually dont KYC over skype for intersango 18:10:22 it was a lot easier 18:10:30 but it took about 10 minutes 18:10:35 like, i installed the SuisseID software, and when I plug my usb stick in Mail.app it automatically starts signing mail 18:10:54 PDFs is harder. Adobe and other apps like to use the term "electronic signature" to mean "image of a hand-drawn pen signature" 18:11:09 phantomcircuit: i guess you could optimise it by having custom stuff on your website using webrtc 18:11:35 TD, in the us the adobe/docusign things are legally binding contracts 18:11:40 TD: Do you know of anything generic that I might be able to use to find out what's on there, what it's currently capable of doing? 18:11:44 E-SIGN act 18:11:53 ah that's good. i didn't know if it was the case in the USA. i think those are legally binding in most countries by now 18:12:21 TD, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Signatures_in_Global_and_National_Commerce_Act 18:12:29 michagogo|cloud: do you know any technical data at all? model name etc? 18:12:38 michagogo|cloud: is it the "SmartID" system? 18:12:40 phantomcircuit: thanks 18:13:03 that's going to make contracts and invoicing a lot more convenient 18:13:30 * TD blinks 18:13:50 did the bitstamp price really go up by $100 in just a few hours? 18:14:15 TD: this is bitcoin 18:14:31 TD: I don't remember off the top of my head 18:14:36 Give me a sec, I'll go get it 18:14:59 http://i.imgur.com/klP77CI.png 18:15:13 stability is only on a logarithmic axis ;) 18:16:12 TD, sure except the real world security there is terrible 18:16:26 like im pretty sure i could forge something to appear like you signed it 18:16:33 .... and it would be legally binding 18:17:12 well, if you hacked my computer and i had the usb stick plugged in and also entered the PIN then probably you could 18:17:18 s/PIN/password/ 18:17:24 it's not like a trezor, there's no display to confirm what's happenng 18:17:42 why can't that be hacked otherwise? 18:18:03 i don't trust any gov in the world to get security right enough on anything they do, ever 18:18:16 TD: The reader is an ASEDrive V3C 18:19:00 michagogo|cloud: i don't know how to do it on windows, but on MacOS there's a keychain app that lets you see if it was recognised 18:19:45 TD: The card appears in Device Manager as "Israel eID Minidriver for Smart Card" 18:20:50 do you have something like Outlook installed? 18:20:51 Hardware ID is SCFILTER\CID_54454c454d10211010 18:21:07 zooko has left #bitcoin-wizards 18:21:19 TD: I don't think so 18:21:33 ens has quit 18:21:44 ens has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:23:26 hmm. well, i guess you could also grab Acrobat and try signing a PDF with it 18:23:40 or chrome/IE would possibly let you use it, if you tried to log on to a site that was expecting it 18:23:44 but i don't know if there are any 18:23:54 Yeah, I don't think there are any 18:24:20 ah ha 18:24:20 Like I said, they've said that they expect the software that uses it to be available at some point in the future 18:24:34 apparently there's an app called "certificate manager" 18:24:38 try http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/view-or-manage-your-certificates 18:24:47 see if you can spot your eID cert using that app 18:25:12 well, SuisseID also gave me a pile of custom software, but as far as I can tell it was only needed for enrollment. it wasn't needed for anything else. it's all natively integrated 18:26:29 http://www.gooze.eu/howto/internet-explorer-smartcard-howto-windows/using-windows-certificate-manager 18:27:05 TD: nope 18:27:13 nope to which part? 18:28:36 seems like you need to toggle an option in certmgr to make it show smartcard certs for some reason 18:29:29 I toggled that option 18:29:31 Nothing 18:30:01 ok. then i dunno what the issue is. it's one of those annoying things where 95% of it is standardised, but somehow you still end up needing custom stuff 18:30:08 so i guess you have to wait for israel to get its act together 18:30:22 Yeah 18:31:04 I mean, the program is still in a 2-year trial period, and the decision won't be made for a year and a half or so on whether to make it permanent, extend the trial for 2 more years, or cancel it 18:31:12 TD has quit 18:31:13 It's not clear what will happen if the program is cancelled 18:31:36 TD2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:35:56 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] 18:45:50 nsh has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:51:51 michagogo|cloud in spain you have to buy the reader yourself, so I haven't used it, but my sisters are lawyers and they've saved quite a few trips to the courts by using it 18:52:00 orperelman has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:52:30 it's a little bit complicated for most people to use anyway 18:57:32 just[dead] is now known as justanotheruser 18:58:51 Persopolis has quit 19:08:58 any know of any existing generic code for generating hash trees iteratively? 19:09:46 as you insert elements in a vector 19:09:54 to amortize the cost of computing the root hash 19:10:02 just a thought 19:10:58 HM: I was going to try to merkelise a B+ tree and implement that, but I haven't had time 19:11:27 hmm, why a B+ tree? 19:12:12 was going to use it for a uxto set that i'd store in memory for very fast block and tx verification and propagation 19:12:41 *utxo 19:12:53 sounds cool 19:14:20 i'm hoping so, when i get around to it. it looks like it'll be a lot of coding and debugging, so it'll have to wait until my other projects are done. 19:14:56 it's similar to what maako did in his python implementation, but with slightly different data structures. 19:15:14 *maaku, sorry 19:16:27 i was thinking of a memory efficient append-only list of leaf nodes (left to right). if you set a prediction for the size of the tree (n leaves), then at (n/2) population you can discard (n/2 - 1) flush nodes from memory 19:16:42 of course if you need to grow beyond that size you need to recompute 19:16:50 right 19:17:03 *flush -> inner 19:18:37 and you can still insert in O(log n) time 19:19:34 well to the unflushed half anyway hmm 19:29:10 justanotheruser is now known as just[dead] 19:42:34 HM: you don't have to predict you can resize as you grow, you just have these little tree fragments when you haven't yet filled a whole new level. 19:47:07 wallet42 has quit 19:47:37 adobe reader sucks even more than i remember 19:48:03 jtimon: i'm not sure if it's complicated per se, but my experience has been it's all very flaky 19:48:27 jtimon: sometimes my card just randomly fails to work. unplugging it and replugging it makes it happy .... sometimes. the software is a bit dubious too sometimes. 19:48:40 WisestFool has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:48:45 wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:49:06 not obviously well tested, at least not for macs 19:49:23 still, i managed to digitally sign a pdf. probably easier and better than printing/signing with a pen/rescanning 19:49:57 for my next trick .... signed payment request 19:56:04 TD2 has quit 19:59:14 is td2 td? I know too many tds on IRC 20:01:19 it was Mike, aye 20:08:25 TD2 that's the swiss id, right? I haven't heard my systers complaining about the spanish systems and they're definitely non technical people 20:09:15 I may borrow them the reader or buy one myself to test the stuff better, I think they're like 10 or 20 eur 20:09:54 not many companies are using them though, mostly for dealing with the administration more efficiently 20:10:05 for now at least 20:10:15 tacotime has quit 20:14:03 wallet42 has quit 20:17:58 antephialtic has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:24:14 Ksipax has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:30:44 wallet42 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:40:39 Ksipax has quit 20:47:00 imsaguy has quit 20:53:00 licnep has quit 21:01:38 go1111111 has quit 21:02:16