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joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:25:09 c0rw1n_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:25:18 c0rw1n has quit 08:42:48 kinlo has quit 08:43:03 K1773R has quit 08:43:29 K1773R has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:43:35 typex has quit 08:43:52 typex has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:43:54 kinlo has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:49:49 HongBaoRou has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:50:31 TD has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:50:54 justanotheruser1 has quit 09:02:09 stonecoldpat has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:10:01 mappum has quit 09:18:30 c0rw1n_ has quit 09:18:39 rdymac has quit 09:20:07 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:20:29 c0rw1n has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:35:02 c0rw1n has quit 09:40:47 HongBaoRou has quit 09:45:49 c0rw1n has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:47:07 edulix has quit 09:52:26 HongBaoRou has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:00:39 edulix has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:06:32 HERE IS MY CRYPTSY REFERAL ID IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO HELP A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. - 70bc3b83eab4372e62132d96cede435c627516a5 10:06:54 hnz has quit 10:07:16 <_ingsoc> :/ 10:11:57 rdymac has quit 10:12:16 hnz has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:25:05 TD has quit 10:31:49 a what 10:33:23 jtimon has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:38:02 prophetx has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:43:36 mappum has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:48:20 mappum has quit 11:00:35 TD[away] is now known as TD 11:07:52 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 11:08:24 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:23:55 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:24:28 MoALTz has quit 11:27:18 rdymac has quit 11:31:25 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:47:38 HongBaoRou has quit 11:53:32 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 11:54:08 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:01:26 Shibe_tabsa has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:04:50 Ursium has quit 12:06:30 Shibe_tabsa has quit 12:13:40 orperelman has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:28:55 c0rw1n has quit 12:30:09 dlidstrom has quit 12:34:12 c0rw1n has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:52:14 shesek has quit 12:58:40 andytoshi has quit 13:05:11 ArcticTrader has quit 13:06:00 shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:11:08 vdo has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:18:57 http://www.identitymind.com/company/partners/ "There are about 10 Billion devices in the world that are connected to the Internet and BlueCava aims to identify all of them." 13:18:59 frightening 13:20:23 wonder what they're using to distinguish devices. surely most embedded linux devices all have the same public fingerprint, there's barely anything to distinguish them. 13:21:21 more bitcoin devices than humans in the world 13:22:08 s#bitcoin#tcp/ip# 13:23:32 i am skeptical about the 10 billion figure 13:24:10 having worked in the field myself i am a lot MORE skeptical about identifying all of them being a remotely realistic goal 13:24:11 Ursium has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:26:04 their goal seems to be attempting to correlate users between devices. matching one browser fingerprint with another, rather than trying to uniquely identify devices. 13:28:51 yes of course 13:28:53 it's still rather hard 13:29:05 well, assuming you "play the game" normally of course 13:30:27 I doubt any of these companies do. if google is using browser bugs to track Safari devices against their cookie settings, you can be pretty sure these companies are going even dirtier. 13:31:27 ah, well you don't know the story of that bug. 13:31:42 there is a long explanation of it here: http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000937.html 13:31:54 jps has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:31:54 tl;dr that was actually a bug in safari and google got the blame for it. nice, huh 13:32:48 by "play the game" i meant, try and do it all in the browser. if i had a really compelling product to sell for credit cards i'd ask the user to download and run a native app 13:33:02 you can get a lot more scammers that way, of course 13:34:32 TD: that's interesting, i heard the noise around the time but the followup must not have had quite the journalistic merit. 13:35:37 the "story" was revealed by the wall street journal at a time when Murdoch was giving speeches about how Google was destroying the newspaper business and it'd be saved by the iPad 13:36:02 and it went downhill from there 13:37:51 that bluecarva.com thing seems reasonably standard. it does the usual, user agent, plugin version, installed fonts, all the normal fingerprinting stuff. attempts to put cookies and lcoalstorage cookies everywhere, and that's about the end of it. 13:38:20 comes with a big scary warning about how the source they're presenting is confidential and secret, but that's about the end of it. 13:39:25 yeah that's typical 13:39:30 of course carders know about all of that 13:39:53 coinbase uses all of those too, interestingly enough. 13:44:37 looks like bluecarva tries to use clock skew as a fingerprint too, that's one I hadn't thought of before. 13:45:52 jps has quit 13:48:45 jps has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:49:49 jgarzik is now known as home_jg 13:51:54 jps has quit 14:16:49 you can probably fingerprint a browser version based on rendering time of certain DOM elements 14:17:25 and yeh, shotgun crap into cookies, localstorage, flash cookies etc. to identify users 14:18:28 market seems busy for a monday night 14:18:45 on huobi at least 14:20:27 orperelman has quit 14:32:08 Ursium has quit 14:33:23 c0rw1n has quit 14:47:35 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:51:49 justanotheruser has quit 14:53:00 c0rw1n has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:55:50 jps has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:58:45 jgarzik has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:02:13 jps has quit 15:08:53 Ursium has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:16:05 tt_zzz is now known as tacotime_ 15:22:42 forrestv has quit 15:23:36 forrestv has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:26:21 TD_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:26:54 DougieBot5000 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:33:00 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has quit 15:33:31 <_ingsoc> _ingsoc has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:36:14 jps has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:40:17 OneFixt_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:40:29 jps has quit 15:41:07 jps has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:43:59 OneFixt has quit 16:04:04 TD_ is now known as TD2 16:26:43 c0rw1n has quit 16:35:15 andytoshi has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:39:33 c0rw1n has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:42:53 jps has quit 16:42:57 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:43:29 OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt 16:54:59 c0rw1n has quit 16:54:59 justanotheruser has quit 16:56:26 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:57:54 http://www.businessinsider.com/report-ceo-of-major-bitcoin-exchange-arrested-2014-1 16:57:55 whoops 17:00:15 but he looks so honest 17:01:42 Popped on those charges for just a mil too, sucks. 17:02:38 Guess the folks who were hoping to get coins back from him, http://bitinstant.info/ are out of luck. 17:03:55 justanotheruser1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:03:59 jps has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:05:08 justanotheruser has quit 17:08:29 rdymac has quit 17:09:19 Shibe_tabsa has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:12:36 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:13:09 justanotheruser1 has quit 17:14:16 gmaxwell: get coins back? 17:16:56 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:18:18 sipa: right before bitinstant shut down apparently they bought BTC from a number of parties and never paid. see the link. 17:21:24 justanotheruser has quit 17:21:24 justanotheruser1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:22:19 rdymac has quit 17:23:08 ewww 17:24:11 vdo has quit 17:26:56 SHREM is also charged with one count of willful failure to file a suspicious activity report, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison. 17:27:10 and the site is gone 17:27:56 rdymac has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:28:34 I'm guessing maybe they dug up the silk road stuff after getting subpoenas/warrants related to fraud. 17:29:37 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:30:39 justanotheruser1 has quit 17:33:00 roidster has quit 17:33:01 tacotime_, yeah or you know they're reading all of the silkroad message system messages 17:33:08 im thinking that one 17:33:47 <_ingsoc> Highly unlikely they'd arrest someone high profile without a solid case that'll probably end up in a successful prosecution. 17:34:43 having messages in cleartext on a site like that... 17:36:17 krl: You really think someone would do that? Just go on illegal marketplace sites on the internet and use cleartext to communicate? :yaranaika face: 17:36:29 TorMail data was also seized in its entirety 17:36:47 as part of the Freedom Hosting takedown 17:36:47 people will unless you force them not to 17:37:30 at _ingsoc implied, arrests at the federal level are not usually made unless they are convinced they have a strong case. 17:37:34 justanotheruser1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:38:04 successful prosecution rate is > 90%. They also overcharge, hoping to negotiate down to a guilty plea that sticks 17:39:23 will make the NY hearing _very_ interesting. It appears that was the intention (just my supposition...) 17:39:53 justanotheruser has quit 17:40:44 what hearing? 17:41:00 http://www.coindesk.com/charlie-shrem-to-banks-we-want-to-work-with-you/ 17:41:09 I guess maybe he should have been working with Swiss banks. 17:41:28 sipa, https://twitter.com/BenLawsky/status/426431501115211776 etc. 17:41:46 NYDFS is holding hearings, similar to the US senate hearings. 17:42:01 Lawsky is the "you should have BitLicenses" guy at NY-DFS 17:42:02 New York... depth first search? 17:42:09 Dept Financial Services 17:42:18 justanotheruser1 has quit 17:42:19 NY regulator of money transmitters 17:42:25 got it 17:43:18 I think these hearings will be much more harsh than the US Senate hearings 17:47:01 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:48:11 orperelman has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:51:40 justanotheruser has quit 17:54:35 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:55:09 home_jg: well the 90% conviction rate is in part because damn near everyone pleds guilty because its so stacked against you. 17:59:01 justanotheruser has quit 18:04:43 maaku_ has quit 18:05:31 maaku has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:05:55 maaku is now known as Guest19097 18:10:05 Um 18:10:15 Did bitinstant market to SR users or something? 18:11:12 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:11:57 not like the charge would imply 18:18:12 nsokl has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:19:44 justanotheruser1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:20:53 MoALTz has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:21:59 justanotheruser has quit 18:23:27 Guest19097 is now known as maaku 18:29:01 justanotheruser has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:30:29 justanotheruser1 has quit 18:48:44 uiop has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:49:29 michagogo|cloud: read the criminal complaint 18:49:36 michagogo|cloud: the dude is almost certainly going to spend a long time behind bars 18:49:51 michagogo|cloud: the evidence just in the document needed to get an arrest warrant seems to create an open/shut case. 18:51:52 gmaxwell: that .... and prosecutors try to avoid spending time on weak cases. japan has a 99% conviction rate but not the same culture of insane jail sentences 18:52:04 UK has 80% 18:52:51 wyager has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:53:02 anyway home time 18:53:11 michagogo|cloud, if I understand correctly, he did this via a 3rd party company that was marketing to SR users 18:53:22 TD2 has quit 18:53:51 third party guy 18:53:51 TD: I was specifically asking about the "sold bitcoins for drugs" part 18:53:56 yes 18:54:09 * michagogo|cloud goes to read 18:54:24 shrem knew he was selling bitcoins to a drug dealer on SR, said he knew many times, and explicitly helped the guy avoid bitinstant's partner companies AML controls 18:54:36 <_ingsoc> TD: Plea deal or jail time? 18:54:38 TD: ah 18:54:43 BTW, shesek, could you tell me if you're able to access tigerdirect.com? 18:54:56 the guy's emails write the case for him. the prosecutor probably doesn't even need to turn up 18:54:58 michagogo|cloud, nope. blocking Israeli IPs? 18:54:59 _ingsoc: both? 18:55:12 shesek: Would appear so 18:55:21 Looks like Germany isn't blocked, while Latvia is 18:55:35 perhaps some poor anti-ddos protection? 18:55:42 * michagogo|cloud shrugs 18:56:15 it's internap 18:56:21 so yeah probably just terrible anti-ddos 18:56:52 michagogo|cloud, charlie is going to prison for a very very long time 18:57:11 internap? 18:57:19 michagogo|cloud, internap.com 18:57:33 TD, oh, right, guy. I thought Faiella was a company 18:57:39 nope. that's his last name 18:58:11 shesek, he's the guy who was all over sr offering to purchase money packs 18:58:24 iirc he even had a ridiculous little cartoon king 18:58:41 he was getting people to deposit into his personal bank account, even 18:59:08 I never used SR, so I'm not really familiar with that/him 18:59:14 I wonder if he's the guy who OTC downrated me when I punted him from OTC for his moneypak moneylaundering. 18:59:19 o_O his personal bank account? is he stupid? 18:59:22 TD, afaict faiella legitimately did not believe that he was breaking the law 18:59:35 shesek: has anyone who has been involved with SR so far *not* been stupid? 18:59:41 gmaxwell, he has definitely been on -otc before 18:59:56 shesek: i mean, Shrem was supposed to be head of regulatory compliance at BitInstant and was busy telling reporters how he'd only hire people he got stoned with 19:00:06 shesek, neither have i, but i went through and looked at it out of morbid curiosity 19:00:23 phantomcircuit: do read the complaint. they address that. he absolutely knew, and wrote to DPR that he was afraid LE would come for him 19:00:24 TD, I guess consumers are pretty safe - there's too many of them to do anything to any of them 19:00:28 they all knew. none of these guys have been idiots 19:00:46 TD, fiella? 19:00:49 Hmm 19:00:50 phantomcircuit: yes 19:00:50 or shrem? 19:00:53 phantomcircuit: both 19:00:55 Count Three, overt act b 19:00:57 phantomcircuit: fiella, near the end. 19:00:59 well the question is when 19:01:06 Anyone care to guess which service that is? :P 19:01:16 Basically fiella talks to DPR and points out how vulnerable he is. 19:01:24 i warned charlie that operating in the us was illegal at the same time i shutdown intersango usd trading 19:01:38 he ignored me obviously 19:01:47 shesek: who knows? it's not joe random dealer that worries me, it's that shrem was dealing with businesses who (we think) are legitimate and actually try to follow the law, but the laws are so vaguely written that trying and failing can be punished in the same way as deliberately failing 19:02:16 so i'm hoping they don't go after mtgox or the cash processor next (i think i know who that was) 19:02:27 given that BitInstant died when their cash processor cut them off for AML violations, hopefully that insulates them 19:02:34 Zipzap. 19:02:39 TD, the cash processor is pretty clearly zipzap 19:02:39 yeah 19:02:47 i know. for some reason i didn't want to say it 19:02:52 it's not named in the complaint 19:02:58 zipzap is pretty obviously an unlicensed money transmitter 19:03:02 Obviously the exchange in the complaint is mtgox. 19:03:07 yes indeed 19:03:28 i would be fairly surprised if mtgox is implicated in this in anyway 19:03:42 Hm, section 10: is that The Foundation? 19:03:43 despite bitinstant's claims they were never an agent of mtgox 19:03:47 Or some other foundation? 19:03:48 michagogo|cloud, yes it is 19:03:54 they do need to show intent, I'm not sure how easy that would be... if they did try to follow the law and didn't do anything maliciously, they should be fine 19:03:55 charlie is a founding member iirc 19:04:04 In any case, its a bit annoying because _legally_ there probably isn't a bright line procedural distinction between what was going on here and what a lot of other things are doing/have done which aren't intentionally trying to facilitate unlawful activity. 19:04:05 "vice chair" :( 19:04:13 though... the laws are indeed vaguely written and you never know :-\ 19:04:18 michagogo|cloud, https://bitcoinfoundation.org/about/board 19:04:37 the foundation has sucked at cleaning its website of members that were later found to be involved in bad stuff. the logo of inputs.io is still there! 19:04:48 Ew 19:04:53 TD, is it really? 19:04:54 gmaxwell: right, there isn't .... it's part of why banks refuse to deal with bitcoin companies 19:05:06 Who's the webmaster? 19:05:16 So while we can all look at this and say "Idiots!" the successful prosecution here may lay the groundwork for causing problems for people who weren't doing anyhting that was so obviously problematic. 19:05:24 it was, at least 19:05:30 <_ingsoc> Lol, Mark. I wonder how badly the US wants him too. 19:05:31 TD: guess i haven't followed up so closely, what is inputs.io? 19:05:35 shesek, the unlicensed operation of a money transmitter is fairly solidly defined, the failure to file an SAR stuff however largely has to do with whether a reasonable person would have found the activity suspicious 19:05:37 TD, I'm not sure how that works, can he simply be removed from it? 19:05:37 yep 19:05:47 sipa: webwallet specializing in micropayments 19:05:48 shesek, (or rather whether a reasonable compliance officer would have known) 19:05:50 sipa: a bitbank run by an anonymous dude who vanished with everyones money 19:05:53 (off-chain) 19:05:58 go1111111 has quit 19:06:05 michagogo|cloud: a new website is being built actually 19:06:06 TD: ah, same old story :) 19:06:11 The knowingly facilitating SR stuff probably is something that will differentiate future *actually* innocent people. 19:06:18 TD, mybitcoin.com 2.0 19:06:19 TD, there must be some official procedure for removing board members. I'm not sure if its possible to simply delete him from the page :O 19:06:23 indee 19:06:26 *indeed 19:06:32 Not just that but shortly before inputs.io existed the guy was on the forum selling accounts and stuff, it stank from a long distince away. 19:06:49 shesek, there is and it can be done within 48 hours 19:06:53 There is a procedure for removing board members who have engaged in criminal activity and it requires a vote from the remaining directors. 19:07:00 gavinandresen, migggght want to start that 19:07:16 But he's not convicted yet.. 19:07:32 catching up... URL of criminal complaint? 19:07:37 midnightmagic, iirc board members can be removed by a vote of 2/3rds 19:07:44 http://www.scribd.com/doc/202555785/United-States-vs-Charles-Shrem-and-Robert-M-Faiella#download 19:08:03 phantomcircuit: I think it requires cause doesn't it? 19:08:03 or a tl;dr: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wac1t/ceo_of_bitinstant_arrested_for_conspiracy_to/cf048a1 19:08:38 shesek has left #bitcoin-wizards 19:08:43 shesek has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:08:54 oops 19:09:08 <_ingsoc> Wtf was he thinking? 19:09:11 midnightmagic, ah founding members have more rights than normal members 19:09:14 5.16(b) 19:09:18 michagogo|cloud: though FWIW i get looped in on a lot of foundation stuff, and i have never once seen a reference to Shrem doing anything at all 19:09:23 shesek: The full bylaws (except for possible changes that they've neglected or deliberately refused to release to the github repo) are here: https://github.com/pmlaw/The-Bitcoin-Foundation-Legal-Repo/tree/master/Bylaws 19:09:51 midnightmagic, thanks 19:09:52 he may well have been a founding member but he had little impact on the organisation beyond that, i guess 19:10:11 I was surprised to hear that he was in miami, I thought he'd largely dropped off the radar after bitinstant shut down. 19:10:18 esp with people accusing him of theft. 19:10:24 gmaxwell, yeah he was super busy getting wasted... 19:10:25 yeah, i didn't hear anything about him lately either. 19:10:30 lo 19:10:50 gmaxwell: when did it shut down? 19:11:08 many months ago 19:11:12 when zipzap terminated them 19:11:29 sipa: june 2013ish? 19:11:48 phantomcircuit: 3.6(b), you mean? 19:11:52 july 19:11:55 it's in the complaint 19:11:57 some people are also accusing him of stealing money - http://bitinstant.info/ 19:12:15 michagogo|cloud, 3.6(b) defines how a member can be terminated, 5.16(b) defines how a founding member can be terminated 19:12:24 shrem is a founding member 19:12:32 i looked at the SR forums once, a long time ago. it was full of threads complaining about bitinstant's AML policies. i figured charlie had finally wised up. 19:12:33 guess not 19:12:39 3.6(b) is what defines founding members' special rights, afaict 19:12:48 phantomcircuit: charges are pretty damning and not defending shrem at all ... but innocent until proven guilty is a pretty important part of due process 19:13:22 so if I understand this correctly, until (and if) he's convicted, and unless he resigns, he remains a foundation members and part of the board 19:13:25 maaku, sure, but the foundation is not the government, charlie has no right to be assumed innocent by a private party 19:13:34 maybe there's some sort of way his duties as director can be suspended 19:13:35 especially when he is so clearly guilty as all hell 19:13:59 shesek, that's correct 19:14:07 there's a 2/3rd vote that could also remove him 19:14:09 gmaxwell: and how long has that bitinstant.info thing been going on? 19:14:18 Hrm 19:14:27 3.6b - Except for the Founding Members who shall only be removed for cause (per the requirements detailed in Section 5.16(b)) ... 5.16b: : (i) declared of unsound mind by a final order of court; (ii) convicted of a felony; or (iii) found by a final order or judgment to have breached any duty arising under these Bylaws, 19:14:39 I haven't read the whole thing, but it looks like he can be removed as director under 5.16(c) 19:14:40 right 19:14:46 <_ingsoc> sipa: First time I heard of it. :/ 19:14:52 _ingsoc: same 19:14:55 All that requires cause is removal of his membership entirely 19:15:00 TD, you're right 5.16(c) 19:15:06 michagogo|cloud, not as a founding member, it seems 19:15:16 TD, except looking at the sitting members of the board you're not going to get that 19:15:26 sipa: since about the time bitinstant shut down, I forget when that was 19:15:32 shesek: From those two sections, I think it's only his membership that's protected as a founding member 19:15:37 Not his directorship 19:15:58 michagogo|cloud, there isn't a way to remove him as a director without stripping his membership afaict 19:16:05 Isn't there? 19:16:08 sipa: that site is itself kind of dodgy looking. 19:16:15 TD: no doubt about that 19:16:17 What about 5.16(c)? 19:16:30 i just never knew there was any problem with bitinstant or people complaining about it :) 19:16:41 but i clearly missed some things :) 19:16:46 Or is there something saying that removing a director necessarily removes their membership? 19:16:50 i knew they had an issue supplying people during the april spike and that triggered a class action lawsuit. this sounds different 19:17:05 I bumped into that .info site for the first time today, too 19:17:21 I have no idea who's behind that and if they have anything to back that up, was just pointing out he's accused by some people 19:18:46 TD, they have bigger problems than that 19:18:58 clearly! 19:19:07 TD, well... 19:19:18 i believe bitinstant actually lost a good amount of their records 19:19:29 as in they failed to deliver because they didn't know who purchased what 19:19:29 It would seem to me, from sections 3.6 and 5.16, that while his membership can't be terminated without cause, he can be removed as a director 19:19:44 at this point i'd believe anything about them 19:19:51 (unless there's a part saying that removing a director terminates their membership...) 19:19:52 michagogo|cloud, except getting 2/3rds of the board to agree isn't something i expect to happen 19:19:57 Ah. 19:20:03 "my night out with bitcoin millionaire and proud stoner Charlie Shrem" http://www.vocativ.com/12-2013/night-bitcoin-millionaire-proud-stoner-charlie-shrem/ 19:20:06 michagogo|cloud: Only if he's convicted. 19:20:09 Profile pieces like that can't help. 19:20:12 midnightmagic: no 19:20:23 midnightmagic: If he were convicted, his membership could be terminated 19:20:25 Ah (c) 19:20:30 But without a co-yes 19:20:46 and banned in russia too? crappy day for bitcoin indeed 19:21:02 Simple majority required for cause. 2/3 for without cause. 19:21:06 russia is bipolar about regulation 19:21:12 tomorrow they'll change their mind entirely 19:21:34 seems like it's the usual thing where different parts of government can't agree 19:21:39 midnightmagic, you'll notice a felony conviction doesn't automatically eject them 19:21:48 this is because roger ver is a felon 19:22:25 i would assume it'd be easy to distinguish between "convicted whilst being a member" and "convicted before being a member" 19:22:58 anyway. home time. 19:23:08 TD is now known as TD[away] 19:26:24 lol 19:26:31 * michagogo|cloud cringes at the away nick 19:26:56 phantomcircuit: Yeah I remember we had that conversation before and thinking it was odd but I suppose not unexpected. 19:27:09 :sigh: is it really so hard to run an honest bitcoin business? 19:27:49 /honest/law-abiding/ 19:28:14 it's probably very hard or nearly impossible to be pedantically law abiding for many classes of business. 19:28:27