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17:39:23 <sendak.freenode.net> topic is: Bitcoin research, hardfork wishlist, ideas for the future - see also: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/alt_ideas
17:39:23 <sendak.freenode.net> Users on #bitcoin-wizards: andytoshi-logbot Graet roidster ielo HM jcrubino tacotime_ justanotheruser orperelman _ingsoc wallet42 spinza rdymac midnightmagic go1111111 hnz wangbus a5m0 gribble nanotube andytoshi MoALTz jtimon shesek ghtdak harrow K1773R hno @ChanServ typex Fistful_of_Coins Mikalv tucenaber trn gmaxwell sipa helo Ryan52 azariah4 phantomcircuit TD[away] zacm UukGoblin amiller pigeons petertodd Alanius Luke-Jr warren zfaith EasyAt jrmithdobbs Muis
17:39:23 <sendak.freenode.net> Users on #bitcoin-wizards: wumpus rs0 realazthat adam3us nOgAnOo jron ssshhh asoltys poggy_ Sorcier_FXK krl OneFixt crescendo ryan-c Sangheili ageis Krellan cfields sneak jgarzik iddo comboy bobke he1kki kinlo wrabbit edulix Emcy Guest81487 BigBitz michagogo|cloud qwertyoruiop forrestv optimator impulse espes__ CodeShark cypherdial nsh BlueMatt lianj heakins
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17:43:02 <tacotime_> And, do I have it right? Okay, payer sends funds to some address generated from stealth address of payee, plus an OP_RETURN that publishes a secret (nonce).  Payee scans blockchain looking for a pubkey and secret that will allow him to spend from some address.  Payee finds said address, regenerates privkey from secret and pubkey, and then spends funds.
17:43:56 <sipa> correct
17:44:09 <tacotime_> Excellent.  Thanks.
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18:26:47 <petertodd> tacotime_: all correct. An interesting question is if it would be better to at least have the option for the payment to be recoverable from information purely in the txout - it's plausible that in the future it'd work better once you can get a miner proof of a txout's existence.
18:27:40 <petertodd> tacotime_: I'm waiting on some Javacsript ECDH benchmarks FWIW before I make any kind of decision - it'd be nice if web-wallets like coinpunk could receive stealth payments entirely in the browser with at least some privacy.
18:28:08 <petertodd> tacotime_: On the bright side, javacsript SHA256 grinding is plenty fast enough to support stealth + prefixes.
18:29:11 <petertodd> adam3us: that's exactly what I suggested actually, which leads to an interesting question that BlueMatt(?) brought up: Can you prove to a third party that a given transaction does *not* contain a stego-encoded data packet? With SCIP it's easy to see how that could be possible in principle, but I dunno if it can be made efficient enough to be practical.
18:32:04 <nsh> you can always upper-bound the redundancy
18:32:13 <petertodd> nsh: ?
18:33:06 <nsh> the "spare" information in the transaction after you discount the necessary
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18:33:36 <petertodd> nsh: oh, this isn't standard stego really: you're hiding encrypted data in random junk, so there's no measure of spare to talk about
18:33:48 <nsh> oh, hmm
18:33:58 <sipa> well obviously the amount of data that can be stored is limited to the size of the transaction
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18:35:05 <petertodd> the real question is can you prove the execution of a timelock crypto sequence, which is something as simple as 10,000 SHA256 invocations, such that you can prove the end result cheaply to a third party that can evaluate that proof cheaply
18:35:18 <petertodd> it's obviously possible in principle, but how can it be made practical?
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18:38:10 <nsh> perhaps in the future there will be a market for verify-farms, like compile/render-farms, that perform some computation and provide short/cheap verification proofs for it and its inputs
18:38:30 <petertodd> nsh: right, that's the "in principle" part :P
18:38:35 <nsh> * nsh smiles
18:39:33 <petertodd> nsh: remember the Blub programmer principle: If Peter can't understand the crypto, it's obviously not practical.
18:39:46 <nsh> aye
18:39:57 <sipa> s/Pe/Pie/
18:40:04 <petertodd> lol
18:40:25 <nsh> hehe
18:40:45 <petertodd> and actually, in practice I use a scricter standard: If Peter can't teach the crypto to someone else, it's not practical
18:42:57 <sipa> it's not necessarily stricter; you often learn things exactly by trying to explain them to others
18:43:01 <nsh> * nsh nods
18:44:07 <nsh> understanding-in-motion has a value above and beyond understanding-in-stasis
18:44:12 <petertodd> sipa: very true! in uni my smarter calculus classmates were always confused as to why my marks were so much worse than theirs given I was the guy always leading the study sessions :P
18:44:16 <nsh> like currency in some ways
18:45:49 <kinlo> blub programmer principle, does that require peter to be smart? :p
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18:47:13 <petertodd> kinlo: the exact opposite :)
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19:02:53 <gmaxwell> 21:45 < jron> slides from RWC if you haven't seen them yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh6erfE9HYE
19:03:02 <gmaxwell> (zerocash slides)
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19:04:39 <nsh> the audio is almost comprehensible in that recording :)
19:12:23 <justanotheruser> What is the most interesting development in the cryptocurrency world?
19:12:37 <justanotheruser> Preferably something I haven't heard about
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19:19:13 <maaku> Jeb donating 25M XRP to MIRI?
19:19:22 <maaku> kinda hard to guess what you haven't heard about
19:19:26 <maaku> also, #bitcoin
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19:28:50 <nsh> wrt zerocash, i wonder if you could have some weird cypherpunk ritualized inaugeration event, with some carefully-selected and mutually-audited public parameter generation set-up, then everyone stands around it in robes looking solemn as the priests generate them and the machinery is then ritually destroyed
19:29:01 <nsh> some cross between the mimbari gray council and burning man
19:30:28 <sipa> #bitcoin-priests plz
19:31:38 <nsh> * nsh smiles
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19:32:18 <orperelman> lol
19:32:23 <maaku> make it happen nsh
19:32:36 <nsh> i'll start work on the liturgy
19:35:42 <justanotheruser> maaku: minecraft jeb?
19:36:26 <maaku> minecraft? no the guy who started MtGox and Ripple Labs
19:36:48 <justanotheruser> Is jeb magicaltux?
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19:37:57 <justanotheruser> oh, reading the wiki. Looks like jeb sold it to magicaltux
19:38:48 <sipa> jed, you mean?
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